New Apex v. Ski Doo 800

[kviper]

WTF that post got all Flocked up? Oh well hope you can follow it.

 

[jtssrx]

What's funny is I am a former apex owner and I liked both I owned very much. I also had this same arguement on the other side verse etec owners. I clearly understand in a long race the apex is most likely going to win. I also understand the lighter etec has the advantage in short races of let's say 1000 feet.

You asked me to tell you why the apex pulls more mph as the equal hp etec. I've told you why over and over again you just don't want to except it. The apex makes its max hp at a full shift of 8650. The etec makes its max power at a full shift of 7800. The etec can only achieve X mph based on its full shift rpm. Meanwhile the apex becuase it spins more rpm can achieve more mph because it full shift peak is higher then the etec. It's a mathematical fact.

I'm pretty sure the apex uses 23/38 gearing. I could be wrong but if you plug that gearing into this calculator the apex can achieve 110.67 mph with this gearing. Meanwhile the etec can only pull 101.40.

http://www.turboaddictionparts.com/cata ... lator.html

 

[kviper]

First I didn't ask you what you think you know. Second It's unlikely a STOCK Apex that will pull full shift (radar MPH) on snow when geared for 110 + unless it is near ice and a Stock 11 XTX comes with 23/37 and a 128 comes with 24/37. I don't know what you fed your calculator and i didn't run the numbers my self but Allan Ulmer said his calculator showed my 24/40 gearing to be good for near 118. You are the one that can't think out of the box.
All you talk about is top MPH and what your calculator says.
The fact's as I have been seeing then shows the Apex starting to pull away between 80 and 100 MPH, well before toped out. Sorry there is a lot your not understanding in this equation and I am done wasting my time on it. LOL

 

[jtssrx]

First I didn't ask you. Second there is not a stock Apex that will pull full shift (radar MPH) on snow when geared for 110, unless it is near ice and a Stock 11 XTX comes with 23/37 and a 128 comes with 24/37. You are the one that can't think out of the box.
All you talk about is top MPH and what your calculator says.
The fact's as I have been seeing then shows the Apex starting to pull away between 80 and 100 MPH, well before toped out. Sorry there is a lot your not understanding in this equation and I am done wasting my time on it. LOL

I've watched race after race between the two sleds. This is how everyone race went. The etec gets the jump and the apex catches up and creeps by. This past weekend only one of three apexs could do that to my etec and it was the Russians which is. The other two could never get around me and I would say we were running 1500 feet easy.

I'm also well aware that conditions play a roll. But many things play a roll. things like race length, driver weight, air temp, clutching, traction, reaction time, racer experience as well as many more things.

You still have never posted why you think the apex has better top end .

23/37 will give you 113 mph. When the Russians and my 2011 apexs were stock we saw 113 on GPS on anchor bay. 24/37 will pull 118.61. You are correct my stock 128 apex never pulled 118. The best I saw was 113 as well.

 

[kviper]

If you go back and actually read my post you will see this is the third time on why.
Drive line efficiency, Type of power (power band), weight is less of a factor as acceloration decreases. I have been reading that Doo is dropping power on longer pull's.
This all makes cense much more than 800 RPM= 10MPH.

 

[bottlerocket]

Group hug please!

 

[jtssrx]

If you go back and actually read my post you will see this is the third time on why.
Drive line efficiency, Type of power (power band), weight is less of a factor as acceloration decreases. I have been reading that Doo is dropping power on longer pull's.
This all makes cense much more than 800 RPM= 10MPH.

Actually it doesn't make more sense. But lets agree to disagree.

 

[tomanytoyz]

Yamaha engines are the stiffest new! lots of stuff going on inside! once the Apex 1000 loosens up and have it dialed to YOUR wants > traction,suspension,etc,etc its a winner from start to finish and beyond >> 9000mi and still kickin butts! 9000mi on a 2-smoke not so much....

 

[Mad Russian]

Lets put it this way ... in loose snow conditions the lighter sled will win with same hp because it stays on top of the snow and the apex starts to plow because of its waight ... Same sleds with equall trection on hard packed (like a hard packed road ) is a diffrent story the apex will out run the lighter sled because now there is no resistence... I raced a ton of diffrent 800s and even 1000 2 strokes and on hard packed the 4 cylinder will rock and roll .. But what do i know ... I only ride 4000 mi a year and owned just about evry kind of performance sled that i can think of...

 

[yamaha1973]

I wish I could ride 4000 miles a year... Take that back, I wish I could put on 1000 miles a year!

 

[bottlerocket]

Lets put it this way ... in loose snow conditions the lighter sled will win with same hp because it stays on top of the snow and the apex starts to plow because of its waight ... Same sleds with equall trection on hard packed (like a hard packed road ) is a diffrent story the apex will out run the lighter sled because now there is no resistence... I raced a ton of diffrent 800s and even 1000 2 strokes and on hard packed the 4 cylinder will rock and roll .. But what do i know ... I only ride 4000 mi a year and owned just about evry kind of performance sled that i can think of...

You have 12000 miles on your XTX? holy crap!

 

[Mad Russian]

lol No the xtx has 7,600 mi but its not the only sled that i own and ride

 

[bottlerocket]

Thats the only one listed on your page. I did have a guy i rode with years ago and he always said he rode twice the miles that I did and we always rode together so I have an idea of how you get 4000 miles a year. lol You are the man considering the snow fall last year. Im not picking but just reading what you wrote!

 

[kviper]

Lets put it this way ... in loose snow conditions the lighter sled will win with same hp because it stays on top of the snow and the apex starts to plow because of its waight ... Same sleds with equall trection on hard packed (like a hard packed road ) is a diffrent story the apex will out run the lighter sled because now there is no resistence... I raced a ton of diffrent 800s and even 1000 2 strokes and on hard packed the 4 cylinder will rock and roll .. But what do i know ... I only ride 4000 mi a year and owned just about evry kind of performance sled that i can think of...

Exactly and I think that's the reason the XTX's and Attaks were generally faster than the short version's, traction.
I have a twelve 128, friend has a 11 XTX. Both sled's have almost identical mod's. On very hard condition's both sled's run ski to ski infact we ran for a good mile with less than a ski difference. We switched sled's because he has 35-40 LB on me. Exact same result's. The strange thing though is unless it's quite loose mine is slightly quicker to 80-90 MPH but as the condition's get harder the sled's seem to equalize on top end. I have a lot I would like to test but it's time to get back to work so I can ride next year.

 

[kviper]

If you go back and actually read my post you will see this is the third time on why.
Drive line efficiency, Type of power (power band), weight is less of a factor as acceloration decreases. I have been reading that Doo is dropping power on longer pull's.
This all makes cense much more than 800 RPM= 10MPH.

Actually it doesn't make more sense. But lets agree to disagree.

LOL, OK!