Throttle response STOCK vs Free Flow Mufflers

[ROCKERDAN]

Talked about this alot, and have often hoped for more videos from guys who told me theirs had NO such delay, but never got any vids that show this. I wish I had made a video myself when I was testing....

I am always watching for videos of the SW to help show this, as its hard to convey online. I may be picky but this delay albeit small, makes for less fun factor on trails where you may/want to get the nose up over trail junk. It may very well be turbo "lag", and I wish i could have tried a stocker side by side after the mods to compare. I dont remember my ZUK ever having any delay, which has me wondering about free flowing exhausts maybe adding to it?

Excell has a video they posted just a couple weeks ago, not sure if everyone saw this already but I thought this was a good showing of the throttle response of SW off the line. Im wondering if maybe the delay I was up against is less prevalent in a stocker then a open flowing muffler.

This gives you an idea of the difference from stock to muffler mod to excell muffler. See what you think. I believe the delay I had was even MORE then the excell muffler(last one in video).

At 24 seconds, the stocker pulls off with what seems like very LITTLE delay.

At 1:00 minute, the modded stock muffler(free flowing) seems to show abit more delay.

At 1:36 minute, the aftermarket muffler(most free flowing) seems to have even MORE delay.

 

[RacinJason15]

I've put a few miles on the sidewinder (stock) and it definitely seems completely different than even my turbo viper. I don't know about delay as much as it doesn't have to low end torque of the 1050 motor down deep. The winder is so smooth from bottom to top it feel like it's hard to even gauge if there is turbo lag. I know my viper from stock turbo set up to a quick spool wastegate and a free flowing muffler and larger diameter off the turbo(2.5) it was unbelievable. My viper had a sweet spot where it would pull very very hard. (Mid range). I just bought an LTX dx winder. I'll be running it stock to start. I am very interested in hearing about TD's eco tune with there modified muffler or excels modded muffler and tune. Anyone have the modded muffler? I want it quiet. Anyone have input on long rides if it's to much and gets annoying? My viper was right on the edge. At about the 200 mile mark I was done listening to it.


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[WinterWolf]

Talked about this alot, and have often hoped for more videos from guys who told me theirs had NO such delay, but never got any vids that show this. I wish I had made a video myself when I was testing....

I am always watching for videos of the SW to help show this, as its hard to convey online. I may be picky but this delay albeit small, makes for less fun factor on trails where you may/want to get the nose up over trail junk. It may very well be turbo "lag", and I wish i could have tried a stocker side by side after the mods to compare. I dont remember my ZUK ever having any delay, which has me wondering about free flowing exhausts maybe adding to it?

Excell has a video they posted just a couple weeks ago, not sure if everyone saw this already but I thought this was a good showing of the throttle response of SW off the line. Im wondering if maybe the delay I was up against is less prevalent in a stocker then a open flowing muffler.

This gives you an idea of the difference from stock to muffler mod to excell muffler. See what you think. I believe the delay I had was even MORE then the excell muffler(last one in video).

At 24 seconds, the stocker pulls off with what seems like very LITTLE delay.

At 1:00 minute, the modded stock muffler(free flowing) seems to show abit more delay.

At 1:36 minute, the aftermarket muffler(most free flowing) seems to have even MORE delay.

That stock one is WAY CRISPER than those modded ones!! I wouldn't mess with it if I were you..keep her stock..she's designed from the factory to operate with virtually zero lag(the video of the stocker shows just that). When you start modding stuff imo, then it throws the balance of the whole set up off.
Imo that stocker looks the best to me (so what if you get 2-3 more mph out of her on the lake with a modded set up)...give me the crispness of that stock set up any day -and with 200 plus HP FROM A FACTORY MACHINE(which is unprecedented until the Sidewinder), I'll be SO MUCH more than happy!! But obviously that's just my opinion.

 

[AnythingButLast]

That small bit of "perceived" crispness on the stock muffler is nothing. Put the stock sled next to the modded muffler then next to the full exhaust with a reflash. There will be absolutely no where and in no condition that the stock setup outperforms the tuned setup. Remember this motor is decompressed 9 to 1. Take the stock 130ish up number and cut it to basically let's just say 110hp without boost. This is more of the low end weakness its not a lag issue. If you want to wheelie the thing or have more low end grunt maybe a race type flash that brings the boost in sooner will help but also clutching will play a lot into it. raise your engagement to 5500 rpms and then play with it for wheelies, burping over bumps etc. Where it will already be on the cusp off the load and conditions needed to be making adding power/boost

 

[ROCKERDAN]

That stock one is WAY CRISPER than those modded ones!! I wouldn't mess with it if I were you..keep her stock..she's designed from the factory to operate with virtually zero lag(the video of the stocker shows just that). When you start modding stuff imo, then it throws the balance of the whole set up off.
Imo that stocker looks the best to me (so what if you get 2-3 more mph out of her on the lake with a modded set up)...give me the crispness of that stock set up any day -and with 200 plus HP FROM A FACTORY MACHINE(which is unprecedented until the Sidewinder), I'll be SO MUCH more than happy!! But obviously that's just my opinion.

This is what I was trying to show....and this video just happens to showcase it well, from stock to modded.

The thing is, I had basically only one or two rides on a STOCK SW, as I modded Toms early on....and so the whole "delay" thing then became apparent and I kept bringing it up. So Im hoping the tuners out there, notice this too....and can create a way around this. Im assuming it has everything to do with the huge muffler/outlet....the lack of backpressure likely creates a big vacuum and so it takes a split second to hit.

But, when you say 2-3mph more, I disagree....A 270 or more HP tune and muffler will result in around 130mph sled on ice, and that is not the best part....its the HUGE, MASSIVE midrange hit you get from the tuned ECU with Muffler...the mid range of these tunes sleds pulls so hard, its not even close IMO to stocker.

I believe over time, the tuners will be able to work around this...at least that is my hope, and why I think this subject is important to many TRAIL riders, since that snap on bottom is what makes for fun factor on trail knolls

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

That small bit of "perceived" crispness on the stock muffler is nothing. Put the stock sled next to the modded muffler then next to the full exhaust with a reflash. There will be absolutely no where and in no condition that the stock setup outperforms the tuned setup. Remember this motor is decompressed 9 to 1. Take the stock 130ish up number and cut it to basically let's just say 110hp without boost. This is more of the low end weakness its not a lag issue. If you want to wheelie the thing or have more low end grunt maybe a race type flash that brings the boost in sooner will help but also clutching will play a lot into it. raise your engagement to 5500 rpms and then play with it for wheelies, burping over bumps etc. Where it will already be on the cusp off the load and conditions needed to be making adding power/boost

Agree and its quite obvious the tuned sleds will crush the stockers....But the video does clearly show the crisp "snap" on bottom initial whack of throttle on stock exhaust vs the other two.

I am going to keep mine stock awhile Year 1 for sure, and really concentrate on this alot...As I will now be able to compare it to a modded SW at first snap.

 

[**sj**]

my take....seems first vid guy is blipping the throttle and is partially into it when he pegs it...last video (my exhaust) seems he is blipping but is out all the way when he whacks it....

 

[Soupy]

my take....seems first vid guy is blipping the throttle and is partially into it when he pegs it...last video (my exhaust) seems he is blipping but is out all the way when he whacks it....

Agreed

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[runnin' scared 2]

I've seen the other Excell video (modded vs. stock) The modded sled pulls the stocker out of the hole and all the way up top.

 

[snowbeast]

This is what I was trying to show....and this video just happens to showcase it well, from stock to modded.

The thing is, I had basically only one or two rides on a STOCK SW, as I modded Toms early on....and so the whole "delay" thing then became apparent and I kept bringing it up. So Im hoping the tuners out there, notice this too....and can create a way around this. Im assuming it has everything to do with the huge muffler/outlet....the lack of backpressure likely creates a big vacuum and so it takes a split second to hit.

But, when you say 2-3mph more, I disagree....A 270 or more HP tune and muffler will result in around 130mph sled on ice, and that is not the best part....its the HUGE, MASSIVE midrange hit you get from the tuned ECU with Muffler...the mid range of these tunes sleds pulls so hard, its not even close IMO to stocker.

I believe over time, the tuners will be able to work around this...at least that is my hope, and why I think this subject is important to many TRAIL riders, since that snap on bottom is what makes for fun factor on trail knolls

Dan

Dan I think more 270 hp tunes right now are running 130 plus on hard packed snow,and geared on ice more.

 

[snowbeast]

I've seen the other Excell video (modded vs. stock) The modded sled pulls the stocker out of the hole and all the way up top.

As it should,can you post that vid please.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Dan, you've brought this up ALOT & some guys still don't know exactly what you're saying. I do! It's that slower/smaller trail you want to "bleep" the front & get the ski's up a tad. That first microsecond of throttle modulation. That lower rpm crack the throttle to go "weeeeee". Here's my take...

1) Your 129'' should help to get front lighter quicker 'cuz my 137'' is horrible with transfer
2) The reverse helix that spools turbo up sounds like the right idea. I'll find out soon
3) Maybe someone's tune will help under 6000 rpm's 'cuz once over 6000 it's stupid fun
4) NO STAB & ROLL I found rolling throttle worked better than stabbing throttle. Not a slow roll, but controlled roll. This may be an indicator of something in the air intake. I've found in the past that aftermarket intakes loose a little "SNAP" if not adjusted for it

It's like being on fire... SDR.....STOP DROP & ROLL
For Dan to have fun.... NSR.....NO STAB & ROLL

 

[fxnytrortxkid]

This is what I was trying to show....and this video just happens to showcase it well, from stock to modded.

The thing is, I had basically only one or two rides on a STOCK SW, as I modded Toms early on....and so the whole "delay" thing then became apparent and I kept bringing it up. So Im hoping the tuners out there, notice this too....and can create a way around this. Im assuming it has everything to do with the huge muffler/outlet....the lack of backpressure likely creates a big vacuum and so it takes a split second to hit.

But, when you say 2-3mph more, I disagree....A 270 or more HP tune and muffler will result in around 130mph sled on ice, and that is not the best part....its the HUGE, MASSIVE midrange hit you get from the tuned ECU with Muffler...the mid range of these tunes sleds pulls so hard, its not even close IMO to stocker.

I believe over time, the tuners will be able to work around this...at least that is my hope, and why I think this subject is important to many TRAIL riders, since that snap on bottom is what makes for fun factor on trail knolls

Dan

yeeeessssss this guy has it. And tuners should be able to hit little harder down low with boost and clutching. Maybe dropping a tooth or 2 allowing it to rev too. I'm sure it's got plenty of power to be fast enough top end while dropping 1-2 teeth and gain a lot in the throttle response and 0-75mph or 40-60mph ranges. Do I truely feel this sled really needs any of this? No. But for cpl hundred why not! Lol

 

[Dano]

For the short time I spent riding the sidewinder, I kind of pictured in my head that maybe a stiffer primary spring with lighter heel/more progressive primary weights would help to keep higher boost at slower speeds. Kind of like the Heel Clicker clutching trend. Then again, it may not be tame to ride in slow speeds and hard to keep clutches cool, which Heel Clickers were notorious for. I'm sure it could be clutched out, but may need to change the normal throttle habits and keep RPMs from going to an idle while riding. I really can't picture low compression cylinders to give a snap throttle feel down low, which I think the question now becomes on how much boost can be added in a tune at idle RPMs. Or maybe raising idle RPMs and engagment slightly to create more boost combined with a tune? I really don't know, but I recently drove my Dads Ford Superduty 6.4 powerstroke and that engine was notorious for turbo lag. After exhaust delete and tune, it ran good boost at idle and no lag.

Dan

 

[Mighty]

I only had 2 opportunities this past season to ride my SW. The first time out it was bone stock except for studs. Crisp, quiet and fast. The 2nd time out I had an OSP can, Alfa CAI, Excell clutching that included a Dalton Helix, Cat gray spring and a Doebeck fuel controller. I didn't notice any lag whatsoever either time out. Wait, I did seem to notice a slight difference when I went from the stock 8JP belt to the 8DN. Yes, I installed the OSP secondary adjuster. I preferred the throttle feel of the 8JP and put it back on