• We are no longer supporting TapaTalk as a mobile app for our sites. The TapaTalk App has many issues with speed on our server as well as security holes that leave us vulnerable to attacks and spammers.

Failure To Start Below -10F/-20C

VT_BluYamaha54

Lifetime Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
226
Location
Vermont
Country
USA
Snowmobile
2012 Vector LTX
2004 RX-! Warrior
1984 Phazer (Antique)
I am trying to collect some data on Yamahas that fail to start in cold weather. More specifically, only fuel injected motors. I am not interested in obvious failures such as a battery that won't crank an engine over but only cases (and hopefully fixes you or dealer found) where the engine cranked fine but failed to start. (A battery sufficiently strong to provide sustained cranking at adequate RPM would seem to be dismissed as a cause.)

Currently, if your relay is OK, you hear the fuel pump run and pressurize the rail. Everything normal - no codes, etc. I am aware of several failures even when these conditions are present. Cycling the key on/off 3-5 times was usually done but the engine still failed to fire unless cranked several minutes - and sometimes still didn't. Some shops suggest holding the throttle fully open to tell the system to deliver max fuel will work (?) Again, this has had mixed results.

When there is no sound of the fuel pump, this is resolved by the new solid state (red) relay.

Certainly some failures can to be blamed on fuel quality/volatility issues but when other sleds in a group do start, this doesn't seem to be a legitimate cause. When there is fuel compression, and spark, it should start!

Thank you for sharing your experiences with this frustrating issue -
 

This has happened to me 1 time. 2013 Nytro XTX 1.75, just over 2000 miles on sled. Went to start and had very long crank time. Caught me off guard. This sled ALWAYS starts. Listen for pump cycle, it was good, tried again still no start. 3rd time, made sure pump cycled, made sure kill switch was off, still no start. My buddy walked up and asked what was going on, told him it wouldn't start. Showed him the process I was doing, and it started right up like always.
No problem since.
 
Since you didn't mention it, how cold was it when this happened? Any other environmental factors (had you been riding in powder/riding back in a group with lots of snow dust, temperature swings in the previous 24h, etc) ?

I'm speculating that after multiple fuel rail pressurizations, there was a sufficiently rich charge going into the intake that it started(?)
 
Temp was zero or 1 below. I always lead, so not much snow dust the day before. Filled up the night before. When the engine started, it ran fine, like nothing was wrong. Haven't had a problem since.
 
ess said:
Check this old thread, Have had this same problem on both my 06 and '11. Only occurs when tmp over night goes below -20F

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

Thanks for posting that link although it doesn't definitively resolve the issue. In my search, I tried: "no start", "cold start" but didnt turn up anything useful.

IMO, I think we have a problem with starting these FI sleds in cold conditions and Yamaha needs to provide a TSB to address it.
 
I have 4 fuel injected 4 stroke yamaha's 2006-2011 with 3 to 12 k miles with lots of 20 below starts and had never had a cold start problem THEN:

Started sled last week end rode <1 mile, shut off at about 0degrees F came back to a no fuel pump cycle, crank great not start CODE 43. Three days later no warm temps -tried again, fuel pump heard no code started right up. (2010 Vector) I am getting the new solid state relay just in case.

Yamadoo
 
I was recently on an overnighter, where my 2010 Apex had to sleep outside. In the morning with the temp at -18c, the fuel pump would not come on with the ignition. The engine would turn over, but not start. Long story short, after a few phone calls to my dealer, I swapped out the relay with one of the others, and it fired up.

Now my task is to properly identify, and label each of those 4 relays, plus arrange them for easier access. Obviously, I will be getting the updated "cold weather" relay for put in the fuel pump slot.

Interestingly enough, I previously had a somewhat related issue with our 2010 Vector, whereby on 2 consecutive cold mornings after the sled had stayed outside, it did start up but there were no lights and no power to the 12v DC outlet. After a couple of minutes of the engine running, everything came back online.

In my quest to identify these circuits, there are 3 out of the 4 relays with are similar and thus interchangeable. The other has writing on the relay itself, thus making it different from the other 3. Could someone tell me what this particular relay controls?

Thanks…..
 
Little late to this thread, but thought I would share an experience and what eventually worked for cold starting an 11 Apex.

I have a buddy that has a low mileage 11 Apex SE. Last year was his first winter with the 11. Same temperature conditions as the OP stated. He's coming off an 06 Apex where typically we would cycle the fuel pump once before hitting the starter, always worked great even in coldest conditions on those sleds. Last winter, his SE sat outside overnight at a motel, -15-20c in the morning, cycles pump as he typically did with the 06, cranks and cranks won't fire up. Cycles pump a couple more times, cranks, no start, sounds like it wants to almost fire up, but won't catch and run. He wears his battery down to the point where he has to jump starts the sled with his pick up. Finally, after much more cranking etc, she eventually fires up, this is about an hour of work and he's not impressed.
Next trip, cold as a bish again, but this time he's inside his enclosed sled trailer and it wont fire same as last time after cycling fuel pump once. Pull it off trailer and jump start it again after draining the battery down, finally get her going.
Before next ride, a dealer tells him to change plugs out, so even though the stocker plugs look mint, he changes them anyway. Next ride, same thing doesn't want to fire after cycling fuel pump. After talking to the mechanic at the dealership, who recommends he NOT cycle the fuel pump and just twist the key to start it, mechanic said he ran into this on some Nytro's in the past.
BINGO!, works great, and never had a cold start problem for the rest of the winter, and it got much colder than -20c. Mind you the sled complained being so cold, but it always fired right up first time and eventually warmed/cleared up and ran like a champ. So for whatever reason, cycling the fuel pump seemed to be the issue with this sled anyway. I do the same on my 11 ER as well and has never been a problem.
Cheers!
 
I do a lot of riding in Ontario and Quebec and have had this occur at least 5-6 times on my 06 and 11 Apex. My riding buddy with the same o6 and 11 has had this occur 3-4 times also. I check every time for the fuel pump to cycle before I the starter kicks in. Typically the first time i turn the key it pops like its going to start then quits. Once this occurs your pretty much screwed. Holding the throttle open on a restart seemed to make it worse. Only thing that works for me is replacing/drying the plugs. My conclusion is that the EFI mapping is to rich at the sub minus temps. I have heard heating up the coolant sensor by the thermostat fakes out the rich mapping and doesn't flood. This will be my next approach when the temps are <-15°F. I will also hold the key on for 5-6 sec as suggested in another post.
 
shouldnt have to do that #$%&* at all iits a snow machine that means winter. Same f[%#@ problem here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


Back
Top