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Another Carb issue?
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Motophotog7
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Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 6
Location: Saratoga County, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Another Carb issue? Reply with quote

Hey guys I have an '04 Warrior that is stock as far as I know aside from studs and doolies. I have cleaned the carbs, reset the pilot screws put it all back together, cleaned the clutches swapped out for a new belt and went for a test run. My idle was always way low, like a cammed motor, so I adjusted to factory specs. Now after bogging on take off and then running it out, when I come to a stop the idle hangs between 3-4000rpms. eventually it will come down but not all the way down so I have adjusted the idle screw back down and it keeps doing it. I checked the air box and all the boots are on right. Also it will only rev out to 9000 which I am thinking is more likely a clutch issue. Any suggestions? BTW, I have not had the carbs synched yet, and it only has 1500 miles.

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RedRocket
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Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 548
Location: NH

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been having a similar problem that does not seem to be a carburetor issue due mostly to the fact that it's so random. I am thinking it may be the T.P.S (Throttle Position Sensor) or some electrical issue since it's random. I just need time to test it.
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Len Todd
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Location: Baldwin, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you MAY have two problems, with heavy emphasis on the "MAY.":

Carbs: How many turns do you have on the pilot screws? I would go back into the carbs and clean them again. The Pilot Screws get two turns out from their bottom. Take your time. Remember, Speed Kilzzzzz.

If there is something in the jets, again, you may want to ask yourself, how much crud is still back up in the tank? Have you been using cans to fuel the sled? May even need to think about a new fuel/extra fuel filter. Whatever goes in the tank, comes out in the carbs.

Clutches: What RPMs were you seeing top end before you messed with the carbs? However, it could be your carbs are causing you to not be able to pull the correct RPMs, given your clutching. So, ... go after the carbs first.

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Motophotog7
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Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 6
Location: Saratoga County, NY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Len,

I am not getting any current at all from the TPS, do they go bad? The carbs were quite clean, very little at al and one Needle had a little crud on it, thats all. I use both cans and pump depending, I have put 7 gals in this season from fresh new can so.....
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Len Todd
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Location: Baldwin, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Occasionally they go bad. But, you should be seeing an error code if they do go bad. But, to test a TPS, you disconnect it and measure ohms across the connector's pins.

Across the Yellow and Black wires you should see 0 to 4,000 ohms.

Across the Blue and Black wires you should see 4 - 6,000 ohms.

This means at the idle position you should see the lower values and at the WOT position you should see the upper values. The TPS is nothing more than a variable resistor. Now, the way it is mounted on the carb could have a slight impact on exactly what the values are. But you should be fairly close to the specs.

As you sweep through the TPS's range, look for any intermittent connections. This would be a loss of reading.

Also, look for an open circuit. This would be infinite ohms.

If you find either one of these conditions or if it is out of spec, then it needs to be replaced. If it needs to be replaced there is a procedure to get it positioned correctly on the carb. Let us know, if you replace it and I'll figure out that for you.

But, I am going to go back a re-read this post. I am not sure how you got to the TPS being suspect.

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Len Todd
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Location: Baldwin, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this was a fuelie, I would suspect the TPS. But, we would have to come up with a good story to explain away not getting a code.

But it is not a fuelie. In a fuelie, if the TPS is intermittent, it goes to limp (rich) mode. You are seeing rich. But you do not have a limp mode. You have carbs.

Don't suppose you could have a float that got out of adjustment as you cleaned them? This could give you a rich condition. An out of adjustment Pilot Screw? Crap stuck in the float's needle valve. What you are describing are symptoms of a carb problem.

I'll throw in my metal fuel can spiel. Never use a metal fuel can. They rust in one year and the rust ends up in your carbs. A plastic fuel can is good, if you keep it spotlessly clean inside.

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Motophotog7
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Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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Location: Saratoga County, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After cleaning again yesterday (a better wrench than I this time) we went out to test, still not right. He checked the TPS, doubting after more reading on here that that is the prob. We are going to remove and clean on the bench this time, and see if that does it. Much colder yesterday, snow was tight and we could not get more than 85mph or pull more than 8500rpms. Pulled the plugs afer a back fire and definitely had 3 which were lean way too light colored. As I understand and we talked, if she is not getting enough fuel, it will not rev out, lack of power etc. Yes lean can give more power symptoms, but not in this case, too lean and there just is not enough fuel to burn. Any disagreements? I am still on the stock plugs and high test, am waiting until I get this cleared up to put in the CR10's. More snow coming and riders out tomorrow afternoon means I hope to get this straightened out tonight! It is the first issue in the 3 years I have owned it, and never had to clean the carbs before.

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mhbrush
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Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday - I had a similar issue with my 05 Warrior. When cruising across a lake 60-70 MPH, I would put it to the pin and the sled would bog down and stop pulling. The snow conditions before the lake were not ideal, and the sled was running hot - but not overheating. I sensed that maybe the sled was regulating the speed and RPM’s based on engine temp. Is this possible? Moto, have you experienced you loss of power when the sled is hot? Len, what effect does the 10% ethanol having on our carbs and performance? Maybe the gas is less potent…….Thoughts?
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4strokelover87
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Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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Location: East Central Illinois (in the middle of a corn field)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar issue with my '04 Warrior last weekend when it was running hot (205+), it would bog in the mid range, but once it got cooled back off to 200 or below, it was fine.....very consistant like this all weekend. Never had the bog problem when the motor was running cool, only hot. I'm gonna guess since it isn't just me, there is something that regulates the engine speed when it gets that hot.
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Chris-RX-1
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Joined: 12 Nov 2004
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Location: Decatur, Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Vacuum leak? Reply with quote

Have you checked everything to make sure you don't have a vacuum leak anywhere, like cracked or missing nipples or carb boots?

I'm not sure this is your problem but it sure sounds like a vacuum leak.

Chris
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Len Todd
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Location: Baldwin, Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the carbed sleds you should be running 87 octane. More BTUs to burn. Hi-test fuel is diluted with additives. These sleds run crappy with hi-test.

Yes, ethanol does reduce the BTUs in the fuel. On my Honda Hybrid the mileage drops from 42.5 to 38.9 mph with this winter blend with ethanol. But if you running stock jetting, you should not see significant power loss.

When the engine gets hot, the carbs are very hot. They are heated with coolant, unless you add a shut off valve. But, I have never noticed significantly degraded performance because of this extra heat.

A vacuum leak is a possibility. This is easily checked.

If you find something in this carb cleaning, I would suggest draining and cleaning the tank and fuel lines, etc..

Sure you did not in inadvertently change the needle clip setting?

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mhbrush
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Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Len,

What is the best way to check for a vacuum leak?
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Motophotog7
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Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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Location: Saratoga County, NY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisRX1 You must be a little prescient, as yes I found a real live vacuum leak!!! Get this, not until the third cleaning did I notice that there was a hole in #3 Carb cap! Something 6-sided like a bolt head but small like 6-8mm punched a dent in the carb cap. Piece was still there and definitely was leaking air. I fixed last night with J-B Weld leaving the piece in with space around for the J-B to flow into and bond. Also I cannot even get a bread tie wire down the Pilot jet (#17.5) I can see down through but not pass the wire through. I am going to soak for a while and try again. I am hoping that the vacuum leak was the big issue. I will keep you posted. Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions!!

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Len Todd
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best way to find a vacuum leak is visual inspection.

Good Catch on the carb cover!

Long term, you might want to consider getting a new cover for the carb, though. You would hate to suck something down into the engine and screw up a valve, etc.

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03RX1-ER-LE
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Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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Location: M-Th Livonia Mich F-S Oscoda Mich

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been questioned (by other members) about my finding on all three of my sleds, you can't pass a wire all the way thru the pilots, there is something in there that is part of the pilot. Possibly a venturi or ? if you hold the pilot up to a light you can see thru it, however there is something in there. Unless my old eyes are playing tricks on me there is something in there on all three of my sleds carbs! Last year my wifes sled was idling high like that when you pulled up to a stop sign, if you flipped the throttle lever a few times it would idle down. After a good cleaning of the carbs it has been running flawlessly this year. Len Todd, is my eyes playing tricks or is there something inside the pilots???
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