2022... disappointed!

[Fro-1]

The Pro Cross was around long before the Winder engine, when Yamaha became part of the equation with Cat they basically shoe horned the Winder engine and Viper engine in the Pro Cross chassis, it just can't handle the torque from Yamaha engines, if Cat /Yamaha actually would make a chassis to house the Winder/ Viper engine properly with alot of Yamaha input I think a lot of the issues would be addressed and you would have the 20 grand plus sled you are paying for which should be trouble free and handle and perform like nothing on the planet, this is when I would become interested, as for now your basically getting a shiny Rat rod and paying big bucks for it, no matter the color scheme, shock package, Skis upgrade, power steering are all gimmicks to get you to pay a premium price for a jury rigged rat rod sled, Yamaha I believe knows what has to be done here but have been sucked in by Cat/Textron's practices and have little to no say anymore, they are driven by bean counters now which have sucked the pride out of Yamaha sled products line that we are all known to have and had, Jaret made the comment in a teaser Vid that Apex and Vector die hard would be attracted to this new line up? why would we? Really nothing has changed but the price of them.

Can’t put it much better than this!

 

[darv]

Can’t put it much better than this!

I agree i will keep driving my apex until Yamaha start to care and just quit put stickers on on someone else 's stuff that all also includes all the dumb looking FXR jackets that they just put a yamaha logo on they have gotten LAZY.

 

[Phatboyc]

Sure but while your waiting and hoping your body isn't. Live once and now cause you never know.

 

[STAIN]

Can’t put it much better than this!

Or you totally disagree....
The Cat merger saved the Yamaha sled division.
If not for the Pro-Cross with Yamaha stickers I would have been done with Yamaha in 2013. I was so over their chassis by that time I was ready to move on. I had a 2005 RX, 2005 Rage and 2012 Apex. My back thanked me for buying a Viper in 2014.
Really Since 2003 you have been buying Yamaha for the motor, NO ONE bought them for the suspensions. Delta Box sleds have more suspension swaps done to them than any other sled made. Ski-Doo suspensions, ZX-2's, Expert-X's, M-10's, Polaris s and Cat skids plus more have all found their way into Yamaha chassis. Not to mention seat swaps....
But wait, the "build quality" was the best!!!! Who cares if the sled is not enjoyable to ride. How is changing a gear bushing any worse than having to replace a whole skid?
Ride whatever you want, I'll take my Sidewinder over any sled built today....

 

[74Nitro]

Went north a few weeks ago, 2 Winders, 2 18 Apex(holdouts).
All it took was some seat time on the Winders and the Apex boys came home and ordered Turbos, one Doo 900 and one Winder. The one that ordered the Doo drove Doo for years before, and we told him it would be cool to compare.

 

[Teamblue4]

Or you totally disagree....
The Cat merger saved the Yamaha sled division.
If not for the Pro-Cross with Yamaha stickers I would have been done with Yamaha in 2013. I was so over their chassis by that time I was ready to move on. I had a 2005 RX, 2005 Rage and 2012 Apex. My back thanked me for buying a Viper in 2014.
Really Since 2003 you have been buying Yamaha for the motor, NO ONE bought them for the suspensions. Delta Box sleds have more suspension swaps done to them than any other sled made. Ski-Doo suspensions, ZX-2's, Expert-X's, M-10's, Polaris s and Cat skids plus more have all found their way into Yamaha chassis. Not to mention seat swaps....
But wait, the "build quality" was the best!!!! Who cares if the sled is not enjoyable to ride. How is changing a gear bushing any worse than having to replace a whole skid?
Ride whatever you want, I'll take my Sidewinder over any sled built today....

I disagree, been riding only Yamaha sleds since the early 80's and have never wanted to swap out a suspension for a different brand. And you couldn't give me a Sidewinder! The only thing the sidewinder has is speed.

 

[74Nitro]

Did anyone order a 2022 Apex?

 

[Wannaviper]

I disagree, been riding only Yamaha sleds since the early 80's and have never wanted to swap out a suspension for a different brand. And you couldn't give me a Sidewinder! The only thing the sidewinder has is speed.

While your long term loyalty to the Japan built sleds is admirable, with all due respect, I have to question your statement that the only thing the Sidewinder has is "speed". I admit that in comparison I am a relative newcomer to Yamaha sleds, but I had 5 different Japan built Yamahas between 2007 and 2013. I bought my first Viper in 2015, and since then, I have bought 5 different Vipers and Sidewinders for myself and my family (I have spring ordered the 6th for my wife because it has power steering!)

No doubt, the Japan built sleds have the edge on fit and finish, and quality of components, but in comparison with the old DB sleds, the Vipers and Sidewinders handle better; their riding position is much more comfortable; their suspensions are a generation or two ahead; and despite the poor quality of some of the components, they have had fewer trips back to the dealer than my Japan built sleds did with comparable miles. Yes, the Sidewinder has "speed", that is undeniable, but it also has excellent handling and comfort in comparison with any other Yamaha sled I have ever ridden.

 

[STAIN]

No doubt, the Japan built sleds have the edge on fit and finish, and quality of components, but in comparison with the old DB sleds, the Vipers and Sidewinders handle better; their riding position is much more comfortable; their suspensions are a generation or two ahead; and despite the poor quality of some of the components, they have had fewer trips back to the dealer than my Japan built sleds did with comparable miles. Yes, the Sidewinder has "speed", that is undeniable, but it also has excellent handling and comfort in comparison with any other Yamaha sled I have ever ridden

This is it in a nutshell. If you think all the sidewinder has is "speed" then you have never ridden one, or are just unable to be objective on the subject.

 

[Teamblue4]

While your long term loyalty to the Japan built sleds is admirable, with all due respect, I have to question your statement that the only thing the Sidewinder has is "speed". I admit that in comparison I am a relative newcomer to Yamaha sleds, but I had 5 different Japan built Yamahas between 2007 and 2013. I bought my first Viper in 2015, and since then, I have bought 5 different Vipers and Sidewinders for myself and my family (I have spring ordered the 6th for my wife because it has power steering!)

No doubt, the Japan built sleds have the edge on fit and finish, and quality of components, but in comparison with the old DB sleds, the Vipers and Sidewinders handle better; their riding position is much more comfortable; their suspensions are a generation or two ahead; and despite the poor quality of some of the components, they have had fewer trips back to the dealer than my Japan built sleds did with comparable miles. Yes, the Sidewinder has "speed", that is undeniable, but it also has excellent handling and comfort in comparison with any other Yamaha sled I have ever ridden.

80 miles a day on my sidewinder and I was beat and sore hardly could ride the next day. 200 miles a day on my Apex and felt like I hardly rode and was ready to ride another 200 the next day. My sidewinder made 4 trips back to the dealership in 2 seasons and 1200 miles for leaks and vibrations. My Apex has been to the dealership 1 time in 9 seasons and 14,400miles for a PS issue.

This is it in a nutshell. If you think all the sidewinder has is "speed" then you have never ridden one, or are just unable to be objective on the subject.

I had 1 for 2 season and 1200 miles, but I kept my Apex.

 

[Teamblue4]

Did anyone order a 2022 Apex?

I would order 4 if they would take my order.

 

[74Nitro]

Many of these threads go off track because they end up in a battle of Apex vs Winder. It's hard not to get drawn into the debate/argument even though they remain civil for the most part.
I'll try to keep my comments on that subject under the right threads.

 

[74Nitro]

While your long term loyalty to the Japan built sleds is admirable, with all due respect, I have to question your statement that the only thing the Sidewinder has is "speed". I admit that in comparison I am a relative newcomer to Yamaha sleds, but I had 5 different Japan built Yamahas between 2007 and 2013. I bought my first Viper in 2015, and since then, I have bought 5 different Vipers and Sidewinders for myself and my family (I have spring ordered the 6th for my wife because it has power steering!)

No doubt, the Japan built sleds have the edge on fit and finish, and quality of components, but in comparison with the old DB sleds, the Vipers and Sidewinders handle better; their riding position is much more comfortable; their suspensions are a generation or two ahead; and despite the poor quality of some of the components, they have had fewer trips back to the dealer than my Japan built sleds did with comparable miles. Yes, the Sidewinder has "speed", that is undeniable, but it also has excellent handling and comfort in comparison with any other Yamaha sled I have ever ridden.

Congrats. I've been pricing the Cat with power steering and the Winder with power steering. The new Cat clutch intrigues me, but I am getting a much better price on the Winder, so leaning that way.
And yes, I know they are the same sled more or less before somebody chimes in to remind me.

 

[yamadoo]

Guys
I have and have loved my Apexes. But no one of my family or riding buddies thinks they would prefer the Apex on a rough or twisty trail. For throttle response or top end no doubt my Apex is king. But after 5000 miles on our Procross Viper ALL choose the Viper for handling, comfort. I have only one complaint about build quality and that has been the slow irritating oil leak- never had to add oil on a trip just hate the spot on the floor.
I don’t like to post inflammatory things BUT the Apex was a great sled but is NOT the present state of the art sled as it once was. Please listen to the MANY-of us who have both. have you EVER read if someone leaving their winder or Viper to go back to a Delta box chassis? I have not. Now I’m sure there is an example but RARE.
If you don’t want a procross don’t buy one, but please stop the constant degrading of the procross sleds and those Ty rs who prefer them

My 2 cents

 

[STAIN]

Many of these threads go off track because they end up in a battle of Apex vs Winder.

Often by the same people that drag them there.
Tiresome really.