2022 Mach Z

[Fro-1]

Maybe Ski Doo has forgotten that the Mach Z of the past was actually second to the mighty SRX. Looks like history may repeat itself.

And the Mach before that was second to the Vmax-4. Or maybe 3rd? Maybe it didn’t come close

 

[Fro-1]

I don't need or want a Mach Z but I did order a 22 900Tr X pkg. I think it will be pretty much up to par as far as power with a stock Winder. Tuned Winders I think will be way too much for it.
I really loved my 2017 Winder. I thought it rode and handled awesome but the Cat build quality is what sent me back on a Doo.
Between my wife and I this will be our 4th 900T. I have never taken off the chain case cover on any of my 900t's. Just drain the oil using the drain plug. Adjust the chain tension in 10 seconds and ride.
I have done absolutely nothing to my turbo Doo's. That's the attraction of buying the Doo. That's how Yamaha used to be before they went to bed with Cat.
I still wrench on my old Winder since I sold it to my nephew. I don't think I could ever buy anything again with Cat DNA in it and Polaris has no 4 strokes. So Ski Doo is my best option.
It's too bad there are so many flaws with the pro cross chassis because the Winder is such a sweet sled otherwise and I have nothing but great memories with mine.

That Cat build quality and Cat DNA in a Yamaha is what keeps me away from any of those mixed models. I’ll stick with my all Japanese sleds until they stop making them all together I guess

 

[Fro-1]

Riding Yamaha’s the last 25 years always seem to be down 100 cc at least running against bigger sleds and still win . This will be a cake walk Having advantages before you line up

Yamaha PWC’s are the same going up against Sea-Doo’s. They can stamp 300-350hp on the side of their skis all they want. The lighter, better performing Waverunners still win.

 

[1nc 2000]

I know this is a Yamaha forum but the title of this thread is about a 22 Ski Doo so I hope guys don't take any of my posts as a bash toward Yamaha.
One thing nobody mentions are the suspension changes on the Doo in 21. My wife has a 21 and honestly it rides and handles significantly better than my 19. I felt my 19 felt much lighter than my Winder and my wife's 21 makes my 19 feel like a tank. The steering is so much lighter yet it turns better and has a much smaller turning radius than my 19. Her 21 feels like it has power steering and I'm sure if the Winder comes with PS next season it will be a huge plus.
Yamaha needs to do some design changes on their sleds. They need new clutches. Every time I ride with my nephew I just can't get over how noisy the primary is. The whole drive train also needs a remake and I don't think Cat is going to do anything so Yamaha needs to step up and do it.
I wish Yamaha would just buy out Cat and come out with a Yamaha designed sled with Yamaha reliability.

One of my brothers is on his third 900t renagade. This year he is riding the 900t x package renagade with the revised suspension on it. He ordered that one thinking he would get a better ride. He's pissed because it rides the same as his last two 900t sleds.
He is not impressed with it at all. Except he saying the throttle is not as herky Jerky this year. It also has less transfer so it keeps the front down lower on take off.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

BRP is a marketing company that just so happens to sell snowmobiles!!! And they are great at sucking in the masses!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Lots of good/true info here gang, I totally agree. I love this time of year for all brands, it's just the sledhead in me! And yes BRP is the best at prying people off their wallets! They do it in sled sales but also in accessories! Gotta hand it to their marketing dept.

As for Winders, do you guys think Tcat will get all new clutches? If so, would the Tcat get your $ instead of Winder? Or would you want to see the new clutches proven first? Assuming they both get EPS, I still think YAM has the colors down pat, with by far the best looking sleds out of the box still to date. While I do think BRP holds top honors for reliability, the Winder simply is a thing of beauty to stare at. Especially those all BLUE ones!

BRP is so into making money, they give you really boring graphics and then send you over to buy a wrap where they can make more money off you. LOL.

Gonna be interesting to get ALL my prices on many models. This spring order for me I am going to dive into a deep comparison of pricing from the Tcat to Winder to new 900r XRS to 900r Machz, and im even throwing in a new Matryx 2smoker and will keep eye out for new 4s POO. I would assume they will start their fore' into the 4s market for '22 with a 100hp NA. To compete directly with the ACE900 NA. BRP has seen the light, and knows their 4s are by far their best selling sleds overall. Now the love goes to the 4s crowd while their 600/850 etec remains largely unchanged for 22. I see this as a tidal shift of the future for BRP, as 2 smokers slowly become mountain only sleds over the next 10 yrs or so(IMO).

What excites me about this time of 4s, if POO and DOO and we know YAM has been in the 4s game(only) for many yrs....is the tech to lighten up the 4s will then become the next battle between manufactures. HP with turbos is the game for now, but guys still want a light flickable trail sled, so hopefully the weights can be chiseled down with lighter materials without sacrificing strength....then it will be onto 'E'Sleds for the next hurdle of future tech.

Dan

 

[Richard Hodgins]

Honestly, these 900ts have nothing on a 998 sidewinder. I doubt the extra 30hp will make much of a difference, but hopefully the throttle cable to ITC makes it feel better. I tried two models, a stock 2020 and a tuned 205HP 2020, both X package sleds. Throttle was so jerky and almost unridable in fast corners: lag first part of throttle throw, than last 70% it kicks in. Apparently you get 'used' to it, but the guy I switched sleds with has ridden it for 5000kms and still hates it. No top end either. There is no pull after 80mph. If you don't ride faster than that, maybe you will like it. They also lift skis in corners and don't handle well, although maybe that can be tuned out with a good suspension tweaking. After switching rides for 50kms, I couldn't wait to get back on my MAXSPOOL 16 sled. My buddy passed me with my own sled and I couldn't keep up with his piece of crap 900T! lol
The Yamacat chassis has its issues, but they are easy fixes for all of them. Thankfully I like wrenching as much as riding them, have the BOP driveshaftsaver since day1, 15000kms and changed three top gears at $50 a pop: cheap maintenance in my opinion and has never left me stranded. Never blown a belt on my Cat clutches either. But I get it they are not for ppl who just want to gas and go. No 900tr will feels as good as a tuned 998, not going to happen. MACHZ killers!
People are ordering those MachZ like crazy in my area, almost fully sold out at local dealers for full sticker price in CAN ($22,950). If they are coming off a nicely tuned and setup winder/yamacat, I think they will be very disappointed...

 

[XP123]

One of my brothers is on his third 900t renagade. This year he is riding the 900t x package renagade with the revised suspension on it. He ordered that one thinking he would get a better ride. He's pissed because it rides the same as his last two 900t sleds.
He is not impressed with it at all. Except he saying the throttle is not as herky Jerky this year. It also has less transfer so it keeps the front down lower on take off.

I disagree on this. Maybe if I didn’t own both at the same time I would feel different. I trade often with my wife and her sled feels 50 lbs lighter to ride than mine. She now doesn’t want to ride my sled anymore because she said it feels like a tank compared to hers. When she had her 19 x pkg 900t she liked riding my sled and thought it handled better than hers. Now she feels totally opposite about it.

 

[XP123]

Honestly, these 900ts have nothing on a 998 sidewinder. I doubt the extra 30hp will make much of a difference, but hopefully the throttle cable to ITC makes it feel better. I tried two models, a stock 2020 and a tuned 205HP 2020, both X package sleds. Throttle was so jerky and almost unridable in fast corners: lag first part of throttle throw, than last 70% it kicks in. Apparently you get 'used' to it, but the guy I switched sleds with has ridden it for 5000kms and still hates it. No top end either. There is no pull after 80mph. If you don't ride faster than that, maybe you will like it. They also lift skis in corners and don't handle well, although maybe that can be tuned out with a good suspension tweaking. After switching rides for 50kms, I couldn't wait to get back on my MAXSPOOL 16 sled. My buddy passed me with my own sled and I couldn't keep up with his piece of crap 900T! lol
The Yamacat chassis has its issues, but they are easy fixes for all of them. Thankfully I like wrenching as much as riding them, have the BOP driveshaftsaver since day1, 15000kms and changed three top gears at $50 a pop: cheap maintenance in my opinion and has never left me stranded. Never blown a belt on my Cat clutches either. But I get it they are not for ppl who just want to gas and go. No 900tr will feels as good as a tuned 998, not going to happen. MACHZ killers!
People are ordering those MachZ like crazy in my area, almost fully sold out at local dealers for full sticker price in CAN ($22,950). If they are coming off a nicely tuned and setup winder/yamacat, I think they will be very disappointed...

I feel they are not easy fixes and I absolutely hate working on sleds now. Like you I used to love working and tinkering with sleds but now I just want to ride big miles and just add fuel.
The Winder is a great sled for those who enjoy tinkering with them. If you just want trouble free riding with no tinkering the Doo is better for you.

 

[cannondale27]

How are the belts holding up on the 900t?

 

[XP123]

How are the belts holding up on the 900t?

I have had zero issues with any belts. They run cool and my original has 4500 miles on it and I haven't even had to adjust the belt deflection.
I don't know about the guys who have tunes but I haven't heard of any issues.

 

[TPAY243]

One of my brothers is on his third 900t renagade. This year he is riding the 900t x package renagade with the revised suspension on it. He ordered that one thinking he would get a better ride. He's pissed because it rides the same as his last two 900t sleds.
He is not impressed with it at all. Except he saying the throttle is not as herky Jerky this year. It also has less transfer so it keeps the front down lower on take off.

Not impressed but he keeps going back, why doesn't he try something else or did he drink the kool aid

 

[1nc 2000]

I feel they are not easy fixes and I absolutely hate working on sleds now. Like you I used to love working and tinkering with sleds but now I just want to ride big miles and just add fuel.
The Winder is a great sled for those who enjoy tinkering with them. If you just want trouble free riding with no tinkering the Doo is better for you.

Do the fixes off season and have trouble free riding all winter.

 

[1nc 2000]

I disagree on this. Maybe if I didn’t own both at the same time I would feel different. I trade often with my wife and her sled feels 50 lbs lighter to ride than mine. She now doesn’t want to ride my sled anymore because she said it feels like a tank compared to hers. When she had her 19 x pkg 900t she liked riding my sled and thought it handled better than hers. Now she feels totally opposite about it.

That is what he tells me when we stop for a soda.

 

[vice108]

I feel they are not easy fixes and I absolutely hate working on sleds now. Like you I used to love working and tinkering with sleds but now I just want to ride big miles and just add fuel.
The Winder is a great sled for those who enjoy tinkering with them. If you just want trouble free riding with no tinkering the Doo is better for you.

Its so weird to me that skidoo is now the reliable sled compared to Yamaha. My Apex and every other Yamaha I owned was so dead-nuts reliable all the time. The etecs were always burning down and I just went about my business for thousands and thousands of trouble free miles! I love everything about my new Sidewinder as far as handling, performance, etc but I sure don’t have the confidence in it like I did my Apex as far as reliability.

There’s actually a lot of the Cat DNA that’s great. The chassis works 10X better than my Apex, the controls feel better, warmers work better, I love the way the panels come off, battery under the seat is so much better etc. But damn, the chain case and axle problems are just so Un Yamaha like! I’m surprised they have put up with it this long based on how reliable their products usually are.