WVTurboLTX
TY 4 Stroke Guru
- Joined
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- 2009 Nytro XTX
2017 Sidewinder LTX LE
I just got back from the 4th day of my break in trip and now have a little over 500 miles on the LTX LE. I'm going to warn everyone that hasn't put any miles on it yet, especially if you've never run a turbo sled, have respect for this thing. It is sneaky fast. You grab the throttle and it is so smooth you don't realize how fast you are going till you need to slow down for the next corner.
Out of the box it has way too much ski pressure. I could barely turn the handlebars. After 4 days of tweaking I have it running like it's on rails. No push, no inside ski lift and pretty light steering. With my setup I can't lift the skis to the air but that's not what i'm interested in. I run high speed windy groomed trail and like it to handle flat and keep the skis down when I get into the throttle mid corner. It is transferring just enough to get all the traction I need but still keep the front nice and flat. Now this is the best riding and handling sled I've ever ridden. On #1 on all shocks it is firm but not rough. I can carry through 10-12 in chop at full speed and only bottom once in a while on that setting. I was joking today saying the numbers are the size in feet that the moguls in the trail are. At the same time it is nice and smooth over the small wash board stuff while seated. The dual rate center setup is really nice. I'm probably going to take another 1/2 to full turn out of the center shock but I'm just getting picky at that point. If you like to run the groomed stuff at high speed I recommend starting at what I have listed below. Probably isn't the greatest for drag racing but I really couldn't care less about that. The limiter straps seemed extreme to me but it's what works for how I like to ride.
Ergos are the same if you've ridden a viper. I've always liked the procross chassis when it comes to this. The first day I thought the seat was stiffer than my viper but it just needed broken in. Now it's firm but comfy.
On to the engine. Did I mention how fast it is? I'm coming off an MPI Trail Viper from the last two years and this thing is on a whole different level. There is ZERO lag when you pin it. It just takes off like a rocket and doesn't stop pulling till you let up. The trails I ran this week didn't give me much of a chance to let it go. I only got it to 96 on GPS for a split second but it didn't take much room to get there. The clutching seems close right now but I won't be able to tell until I can get it out on a lake and let it loose. I just didn't have enough room to be watching the tach while pinning it to see where the RPMs were settling in at. After the first day I thought that the rollers were flat spotting but after looking at them at 500 miles they are all round, wearing even and all making contact with the helix.
Over all I think this is the greatest package ever offered from any factory for the type of riding I do. I couldn't be happier with it. Below is my full setup at the moment if anyone is interested in the details.
Rider: 200 Lbs
Skis: Curve XS with 6" Slim Jims
Suspension
Front Springs: 50 threads showing
Front Compression: 1
Front Rebound: 8 from full soft
Center Spring: 9 threads showing
Center Compression: 1
Rear Springs: 1
Rear Compression: 1
Rear Rebound: 8 from full soft
Limiter Straps: 3rd hole (middle)
Transfer Blocks: 1
Clutching
Primary
Thunder Products Heavy Hitters
1/4 & 3/4 allen in the heel
Added 2 thin washers to the middle and the tip from what came in the box.
Secondary
Stock, 70 degrees on the spring
***EDIT*** Moved this part to the first page for ease since I'm getting a lot of PMs about figuring out settings.
Here's how I have learned to set up the suspensions on this chassis. I just spent all week tweaking my sidewinder LTX LE and my dad's Viper LTX DX and we got them both perfect.
I start with setting the rear torsion springs. I pull the rear suspension all the way up then sit on the sled in the position that i'll be riding it. I like a few inches of sag but you don't want the rear arm to come in contact with the transfer blocks.
Once I'm happy with that I ride it. If the steering, when you are going down the trail straight and just maintaining speed, is stiff then I start adding spring pressure to the center shock until it lightens up to where it's comfortable. If the sled won't turn and the steering is loose then loosen the center spring till the skis bite but you aren't having to muscle the handlebars.
Once I have that set then I start concentrating on how it runs through the corners. If while accelerating through the turn it lifts the skis or gets tippy then there are 2 options to try to correct it. You can switch the coupling blocks from #1 to #2. This will cause the rear skid to couple quicker and not allow the sled to rotate onto the rear suspension as much keeping the skis on the ground. The negative side effect of this is you will start to lose traction under hard acceleration because the front of the skid will lock in with the rear and start lifting off the ground. On the NA Viper you don't notice this on setting 2 because you don't have a ton of power to break the track loose. On the Sidewinder when I did this I would break the rear end loose every time I got into it. So, on my dad's viper we left the blocks on #2, if we set them on #3 he would then start to lose traction. He still had a little more ski lift than he wanted so we then tightened the limiter strap to the second hole and all was well. He can pin it in the corners and it keeps traction and the front end stays planted and flat. Happy Happy. On mine I set it back to #1 on the blocks but it would just lift the skis. I found that the dealership already tightened my straps to #2 so I tightened them to #3 and all ski lift went away. With it set like this the front end is glued to the trail and when I accelerate hard it pulls the front of the skid into the straps then squats the rear of the skid keeping the skis on the ground but transferring enough to keep the track hooked up.
The only times that I mess with the ski springs is if the front A arms are not sitting close to horizontal when sitting on the sled or if I had to tighten the limiter straps so far that when I tighten the center spring it is just pulling the straps tighter instead of lifting pressure off the front end.
As far as rebound settings, you want the skis and the rear to return to the ground as quickly as possible without bucking the rear over moguls or making the front end erratic when transitioning left to right through the corners.
Once that is figured out then the compression can be set. I just start on the lowest setting. If it is bottoming too much anywhere then increase it in that area till it goes away. This will have to be changed based on what condition the trails are in. Once you get it figured out you'll just know what you need to set it on by looking at the conditions.
Keep in mind that every time you change a setting on the transfer blocks or the straps you will probably have to readjust the center spring to get the steering effort back to where you want it again. This all takes time but once you figure it out it will be a whole different machine.
This is my Dad's 3rd season on his viper and he never really said anything to me about how it handled so I never messed with it. It was just the 2 of us this week and he started asking questions when I was setting up my suspension and he started describing what the sled was doing. After some back and forth and going through this procedure he can't believe it is the same sled. He always liked the handling but says it is now a whole different level of performance and fun riding it. I'm sure other people have a different method on how they do all this but this is what worked for me. It doesn't matter what skis you are running or any of that. The same basic concepts apply for how this suspension works and what all the settings effect. Depending on your weight, what ski/carbide/track/stud pattern you are using these settings will all be different but the method to get to them should be the same.
Out of the box it has way too much ski pressure. I could barely turn the handlebars. After 4 days of tweaking I have it running like it's on rails. No push, no inside ski lift and pretty light steering. With my setup I can't lift the skis to the air but that's not what i'm interested in. I run high speed windy groomed trail and like it to handle flat and keep the skis down when I get into the throttle mid corner. It is transferring just enough to get all the traction I need but still keep the front nice and flat. Now this is the best riding and handling sled I've ever ridden. On #1 on all shocks it is firm but not rough. I can carry through 10-12 in chop at full speed and only bottom once in a while on that setting. I was joking today saying the numbers are the size in feet that the moguls in the trail are. At the same time it is nice and smooth over the small wash board stuff while seated. The dual rate center setup is really nice. I'm probably going to take another 1/2 to full turn out of the center shock but I'm just getting picky at that point. If you like to run the groomed stuff at high speed I recommend starting at what I have listed below. Probably isn't the greatest for drag racing but I really couldn't care less about that. The limiter straps seemed extreme to me but it's what works for how I like to ride.
Ergos are the same if you've ridden a viper. I've always liked the procross chassis when it comes to this. The first day I thought the seat was stiffer than my viper but it just needed broken in. Now it's firm but comfy.
On to the engine. Did I mention how fast it is? I'm coming off an MPI Trail Viper from the last two years and this thing is on a whole different level. There is ZERO lag when you pin it. It just takes off like a rocket and doesn't stop pulling till you let up. The trails I ran this week didn't give me much of a chance to let it go. I only got it to 96 on GPS for a split second but it didn't take much room to get there. The clutching seems close right now but I won't be able to tell until I can get it out on a lake and let it loose. I just didn't have enough room to be watching the tach while pinning it to see where the RPMs were settling in at. After the first day I thought that the rollers were flat spotting but after looking at them at 500 miles they are all round, wearing even and all making contact with the helix.
Over all I think this is the greatest package ever offered from any factory for the type of riding I do. I couldn't be happier with it. Below is my full setup at the moment if anyone is interested in the details.
Rider: 200 Lbs
Skis: Curve XS with 6" Slim Jims
Suspension
Front Springs: 50 threads showing
Front Compression: 1
Front Rebound: 8 from full soft
Center Spring: 9 threads showing
Center Compression: 1
Rear Springs: 1
Rear Compression: 1
Rear Rebound: 8 from full soft
Limiter Straps: 3rd hole (middle)
Transfer Blocks: 1
Clutching
Primary
Thunder Products Heavy Hitters
1/4 & 3/4 allen in the heel
Added 2 thin washers to the middle and the tip from what came in the box.
Secondary
Stock, 70 degrees on the spring
***EDIT*** Moved this part to the first page for ease since I'm getting a lot of PMs about figuring out settings.
Here's how I have learned to set up the suspensions on this chassis. I just spent all week tweaking my sidewinder LTX LE and my dad's Viper LTX DX and we got them both perfect.
I start with setting the rear torsion springs. I pull the rear suspension all the way up then sit on the sled in the position that i'll be riding it. I like a few inches of sag but you don't want the rear arm to come in contact with the transfer blocks.
Once I'm happy with that I ride it. If the steering, when you are going down the trail straight and just maintaining speed, is stiff then I start adding spring pressure to the center shock until it lightens up to where it's comfortable. If the sled won't turn and the steering is loose then loosen the center spring till the skis bite but you aren't having to muscle the handlebars.
Once I have that set then I start concentrating on how it runs through the corners. If while accelerating through the turn it lifts the skis or gets tippy then there are 2 options to try to correct it. You can switch the coupling blocks from #1 to #2. This will cause the rear skid to couple quicker and not allow the sled to rotate onto the rear suspension as much keeping the skis on the ground. The negative side effect of this is you will start to lose traction under hard acceleration because the front of the skid will lock in with the rear and start lifting off the ground. On the NA Viper you don't notice this on setting 2 because you don't have a ton of power to break the track loose. On the Sidewinder when I did this I would break the rear end loose every time I got into it. So, on my dad's viper we left the blocks on #2, if we set them on #3 he would then start to lose traction. He still had a little more ski lift than he wanted so we then tightened the limiter strap to the second hole and all was well. He can pin it in the corners and it keeps traction and the front end stays planted and flat. Happy Happy. On mine I set it back to #1 on the blocks but it would just lift the skis. I found that the dealership already tightened my straps to #2 so I tightened them to #3 and all ski lift went away. With it set like this the front end is glued to the trail and when I accelerate hard it pulls the front of the skid into the straps then squats the rear of the skid keeping the skis on the ground but transferring enough to keep the track hooked up.
The only times that I mess with the ski springs is if the front A arms are not sitting close to horizontal when sitting on the sled or if I had to tighten the limiter straps so far that when I tighten the center spring it is just pulling the straps tighter instead of lifting pressure off the front end.
As far as rebound settings, you want the skis and the rear to return to the ground as quickly as possible without bucking the rear over moguls or making the front end erratic when transitioning left to right through the corners.
Once that is figured out then the compression can be set. I just start on the lowest setting. If it is bottoming too much anywhere then increase it in that area till it goes away. This will have to be changed based on what condition the trails are in. Once you get it figured out you'll just know what you need to set it on by looking at the conditions.
Keep in mind that every time you change a setting on the transfer blocks or the straps you will probably have to readjust the center spring to get the steering effort back to where you want it again. This all takes time but once you figure it out it will be a whole different machine.
This is my Dad's 3rd season on his viper and he never really said anything to me about how it handled so I never messed with it. It was just the 2 of us this week and he started asking questions when I was setting up my suspension and he started describing what the sled was doing. After some back and forth and going through this procedure he can't believe it is the same sled. He always liked the handling but says it is now a whole different level of performance and fun riding it. I'm sure other people have a different method on how they do all this but this is what worked for me. It doesn't matter what skis you are running or any of that. The same basic concepts apply for how this suspension works and what all the settings effect. Depending on your weight, what ski/carbide/track/stud pattern you are using these settings will all be different but the method to get to them should be the same.
Last edited:
**sj**
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nice write up...thanks for sharing the info...same sled here , ltx le
due to lack of snow..Ive gotten 30 miles...but its funny how similar i have adjusted already...Im 185...I took 3/8-1/2 inch out of the center spring... 1 all around...havent fooled with the fronts yet because I switched to the procross single runner skis and am adding bergstrom triple points..
transfer blocks are switched to racewerx...so far leaving strap where it was (I like to line it up here tand there) ...figured Id end at middle on rebound after logging miles starting out on rebound soft...
for my weight , my impression is the torsion spring might be a little on the firm side ..but perfect for a 210-220 lb rider
wrapped the secondary to 70 degrees and added the OSP adjuster...and a 8dn belt..did the roller bolts with O rings to quiet her down some..
I feel like I have a slight advantage in knowing this machine since i had a 2016 zr9000 ltd 137" with qs3's ...so its almost like the same sled..
due to lack of snow..Ive gotten 30 miles...but its funny how similar i have adjusted already...Im 185...I took 3/8-1/2 inch out of the center spring... 1 all around...havent fooled with the fronts yet because I switched to the procross single runner skis and am adding bergstrom triple points..
transfer blocks are switched to racewerx...so far leaving strap where it was (I like to line it up here tand there) ...figured Id end at middle on rebound after logging miles starting out on rebound soft...
for my weight , my impression is the torsion spring might be a little on the firm side ..but perfect for a 210-220 lb rider
wrapped the secondary to 70 degrees and added the OSP adjuster...and a 8dn belt..did the roller bolts with O rings to quiet her down some..
I feel like I have a slight advantage in knowing this machine since i had a 2016 zr9000 ltd 137" with qs3's ...so its almost like the same sled..
krm
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Nice thank you for the info .
thunderbolt
Expert
Excellent write up , what is the stock degrees for the secondary spring
**sj**
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Supposed to be 3-3 but some were erroneously delivered 3-1
thunderbolt
Expert
and 3-3 is the 70 degree setting
WVTurboLTX
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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2017 Sidewinder LTX LE
you add the numbers and multiply by 10. I'm running 6-1 = 70 degrees.
WVTurboLTX
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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One other thing. You NEED scratchers. In hard pack snow it was running in the 190s and would heat up instantly when stopped. With the scratchers down it would run 170 all day and take a long time to heat up when stopped.
Thanks WV you are a huge asset and help to us all here with a great report like that. Will start a Suspension setting thread like we have in Viper FAQ. Remind me! Dangit now I want one again!
4strokeluvr111
Please stay between the markers!
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24K miles
"this is the greatest package ever offered from any factory for the type of riding I do"
Your sled is not how it came from the factory.....you only did a few mods right? Just sayin'.
Your sled is not how it came from the factory.....you only did a few mods right? Just sayin'.
WTH? Don't rain on the parade man.
WVTurboLTX
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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2017 Sidewinder LTX LE
In all fairness I don't expect the factory to get the clutching right for me or have the suspension set up correctly. This is the first sled I've had that I don't feel the need to change the track, or the shocks, or add a turbo or try to get more power out of it. Need being the key word when it comes to power.
WVTurboLTX
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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2017 Sidewinder LTX LE
The tuners do suck though. So you got me there. LOL.
newtron
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Great right up!
This is my favorite yammi so far. Power with warranty and great shock package
I am running C&A razors, all shocks on #1 and limiter pulled up 1 hole. I like the rear spring on #3 as anything lower seems to sag for me, feeling like I'm not in an aggressive position for riding. My steering is a bit hard with the C&A but its very predictable........which I like!
As far as clutching I am stock except for secondary wrapped at 6&1. I do feel its weak on bottom end, but want to get a feel with the stock clutching before I start playing! Right now the it holds 8800-8900 with 400 miles on my sled. Very consistent rpm, but yes a little dull on the bottom.
Very happy so far!
This is my favorite yammi so far. Power with warranty and great shock package
I am running C&A razors, all shocks on #1 and limiter pulled up 1 hole. I like the rear spring on #3 as anything lower seems to sag for me, feeling like I'm not in an aggressive position for riding. My steering is a bit hard with the C&A but its very predictable........which I like!
As far as clutching I am stock except for secondary wrapped at 6&1. I do feel its weak on bottom end, but want to get a feel with the stock clutching before I start playing! Right now the it holds 8800-8900 with 400 miles on my sled. Very consistent rpm, but yes a little dull on the bottom.
Very happy so far!
WVTurboLTX
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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2017 Sidewinder LTX LE
Crank the center spring up till the steering lightens up. With your rears at 3 it will probably take a lot unless you weigh a good bit. I haven't been able to run my clutching against a stock machine yet. The other 3 in my group didn't make this trip. It was just me and pops.
