AFR differences with can/intake

[kennyspec]

After seeing so many posts/threads about a can/intake leaning out a otherwise stock sidewinder I thought id do some testing myself to see the differences. First I installed a wideband AFR gauge on the sled (sled already has a aftermarket can on it, bought it that way) The AFR's were in the 14's at 0 vac at about 60kph. at 5psi 100kph AFR still seemed to be about 13.5-14. and at WOT 10psi still 13.0 ish. Seems pretty lean to me. It was pretty difficult to read the gauge accurately but it was definitely no where near 12.0

I decided to get a powercommander and start to tune the sled. Dynojet does not make a PTI version to record MAP however they advertise that you can just log pressure through a 0-5V analog input with a 3bar MAP sensor. HOWEVER after setting everything up the PCV would not record the MAP values properly. After multiple calls to Dynojet and having to send back the first unit for "warranty" they finally figured out it was a configuration issue in how they set up the PVC software.

Now the next question is what is the best/safest AFR for these sleds? I also have the autotune module so I basically have closed loop tuning as well. I have set up a AFR table going from about 13.8AFR at any rpm when the sled is in vac. It then starts dropping to about 12.6AFR by 5psi and then down to 12.0AFR at WOT. Since I have the autotune it would be nice to keep it leaner in the cruise rpm/map areas to conserve fuel. Does anyone have a good AFR table they want to share? I think most guys use the TD/Hurricane flashers and not many are going the powercommander route.

On to testing. The powercommander has the ability to log when using the POD300. First test will be installing the factory muffler with the stock fuel mapping and logging AFR at different rpm/map areas. Next I will modify the AFR tables to AFR values I am happy with and see what changes are made to the fuel tables. Then I will install the aftermarket can and see how much more fuel the autotune will be adding. Next will be an intake and see how much more once again.

So far I have the aftermarket can on the sled and just by adding fuel (up to 30% in some areas) the sled went from never touching the rev limiter to constantly hitting the limiter so it appears it has gained power.

 

[jonlafon1]

11.7-11.9 WFO would be ideal..

 

[Simplespeed]

So whats your approx. cost of The AFR , Power Commander, Auto Tune, 3 bar map sensor and why did you go that route ??? The aftermarket exhaust would increase heat so it’s logical that more fuel could increase power but to hit rev limits thats interesting …

11.7-11.9 WFO would be ideal..

 

[Turboflash]

What I like allot about my PCV is the ability to tailor fuel delivery anywhere from idle to WFO. Using my AFR gage, I can see where I need more fuel and where I can trim fuel. I'm running 95 octane so I consider 12.0 to 12.3 safe at WOT.
Even with stock fuel pressure, the PCV makes it possible (in 250 RPM increments) to dial up fuel flow up to like 200% over stock map. So even without increasing fuel pressure, I can adjust fuel flow at important points in map to get safe but potent AFR. While not as "automatic" as closed loop or autotune, it's the next best thing. In some ways, I like it better. I can tailor the whole tune map to deliver fuel how I want.
I've heard guys say at light throttle (light cruising = low throttle, max timing, low boost) that AFR of 13.5 is safe but it should richen immediately upon increasing throttle.
P.S. I wish DynoJet would come out with a bluetooth setup so I didn't have to physically plug into module to make changes.

 

[kennyspec]

So whats your approx. cost of The AFR , Power Commander, Auto Tune, 3 bar map sensor and why did you go that route ??? The aftermarket exhaust would increase heat so it’s logical that more fuel could increase power but to hit rev limits thats interesting …

I picked up the autotune, pod 300 and a PVC PTI for a viper years ago for about $150. I then purchased the correct PCV for the sidewinder and used the map, autotune, pod300 and wideband O2 sensor from the viper setup I had. Why not go this route? another interesting thing is that my wastegate solenoid froze open the other day. The sled will make 15psi before it his overboost fuel cut. You could bypass the solenoid and install a MBC and run up to 15psi without any other mods or tuning. Of course doing this you are eliminating any boost reduction/safety the solenoid can provide.

 

[Simplespeed]

Anytime you can improve your fuel to air mixture your better off.. Its interesting to see if you can improve power and get better gas mileage …

 

[Turboflash]

Well, what if you don't like the AFR the autotune or closed loop is targeting?

 

[Simplespeed]

I picked up the autotune, pod 300 and a PVC PTI for a viper years ago for about $150. I then purchased the correct PCV for the sidewinder and used the map, autotune, pod300 and wideband O2 sensor from the viper setup I had. Why not go this route? another interesting thing is that my wastegate solenoid froze open the other day. The sled will make 15psi before it his overboost fuel cut. You could bypass the solenoid and install a MBC and run up to 15psi without any other mods or tuning. Of course doing this you are eliminating any boost reduction/safety the solenoid can provide.

Nice and I do not blame you for using what you have already … Funny how much they deturned these sleds in a number of key area’s.. I can see why they did but there is alot of power in there that is not getting put to the ground …

 

[ateick]

Well, what if you don't like the AFR the autotune or closed loop is targeting?

Autotune starts as a blank slate. Up to end user to set desired AFRs.

 

[kennyspec]

Autotune starts as a blank slate. Up to end user to set desired AFRs.

Another reason I like the powercommander better. I get to determine what AFR i am targeting.

 

[kennyspec]

Well, what if you don't like the AFR the autotune or closed loop is targeting?

Have you used the autotune module on your sled? Or are you just manually adding fuel to the PCV map by looking at the rpm and pressure and increasing by 5-10% or? The autotune makes it so much easier. you just load up the afr vs map and rpm and drive it. Works AWESOME.

 

[ateick]

Another reason I like the powercommander better. I get to determine what AFR i am targeting.

Yup I had the same combo on a turb Viper. PCV, Auto and POD300. Awesome way to tune for safe WFO and add in a little fuel economy in areas.
The only problem with the system is that without access to a dyno I could only rely on butt dyno when it came to trying to wring a little extra performance out of a map. One reason I guess for purchasing a vendor tune.

Interesting side note. The install instructions (if I can call them that) for the Hurricane 190 Viper kit recommended a 10.5-11.2 AFR at WFO. Super rich compared to the 12ish target I see on the Winders. Had to add specific software patch to the PCV to even allow it to Autotune below 11. Ended up trying 10.5 but moving up to 11.

 

[kennyspec]

So attached is a pic of my commanded afr and the map it produced. Some areas its adding up to 30% fuel!!!! This is with a aftermarket GGB can on the sled. Over the weekend i will put the stock muffler back on and do some runs and then put the can back on and add a intake and see the difference. Seat of the pants its WAY WAY faster. (all the sections of the map that are a 11 or 17 was just added for safety if it ever overboosts.

 

[kennyspec]

I added the out the hood intake this weekend. Before the intake my tune was spot on at 12.0 AFR at WOT using the powercommander and autotune. . Fuel trims were at zero. It appears the intake pushed the trims to about +10 to +12. So it would appear the intake makes the sled flow a lot more and you need to add another 10% fuel. Intake temps also went from about 10*C at 60-70kph down the trail to -10*C. Outside temp was about -20C. Sure a big difference in intake temps.

 

[number1kyster]

I added the out the hood intake this weekend. Before the intake my tune was spot on at 12.0 AFR at WOT using the powercommander and autotune. . Fuel trims were at zero. It appears the intake pushed the trims to about +10 to +12. So it would appear the intake makes the sled flow a lot more and you need to add another 10% fuel. Intake temps also went from about 10*C at 60-70kph down the trail to -10*C. Outside temp was about -20C. Sure a big difference in intake temps.

Could you feel any noticeable difference in power or response with the external intake?