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Another primary clutch failure

Discussion in 'SideWinder Trail Talk' started by lakercr, Apr 1, 2019.


  1. lakercr

    lakercr Tech Advisor Tech Advisor Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,274
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba
    Out on the lake this weekend with a buddy of mine. First pull rolling on from about 30 mph, and this happened to him at about 100.

    Things I know:

    • STM weights
    • Dalton B/G primary, Dalton B/O secondary
    • 22/41, 8JP
    • 1.25 Ice Ripper track
    • Rollers had a bit of play in them and were going to be swapped out
    It's been posted before, and I'll say it again -- these primary clutches NEED to be inspected frequently, and I would not be doing any hard pulls unless you know everything is 100% in your driveline.

    I have no confidence in the stock primary, and won't be running it next season. SW1.jpg SW1.jpg SW2.jpg
    SW1.jpg SW2.jpg SW3.jpg
     
    Thunder Products likes this.
  2.  
  3. 1nc 2000

    1nc 2000 TY 4 Stroke Guru

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Marquette, MI
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    Yamaha FX Nytro RTX SE
    Third picture really shows how worn out the roller bushings are.
     
  4. Shagnos

    Shagnos TY 4 Stroke Junkie

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Slowville mi
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    Sidewinder
    I would not have even ridden it with the rollers that bad.:o| I check my rollers daily and always carry 3 spares.
     
    Byam likes this.
  5. lakercr

    lakercr Tech Advisor Tech Advisor Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,274
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba
    Yup, that's the point I'm making here - these things need to be checked closely and often.
     
  6. hibshman25

    hibshman25 Vendor Vendor VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,206
    Location:
    Lebanon, PA 17042
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 sidewinder ltx dx
    2018 snoscoot
    Thread title may be a little misleading, as the clutch castings were not the problem. Any clutch that has weights travel past rollers will likely sustain damage.

    Are STM weights shorter than oem? As a conservative measure maybe mfgs could make weights a bit longer so when the rollers start to wear, there is no chance of the weight traveling past the roller.
     
  7. cannondale27

    cannondale27 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Vendor Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    18,051
    Location:
    Manitowoc,WI
    Why couldn't a limiter be added to clutch to prevent this? Maybe check weights with just pin in and use a spacer to limit travel. Yes would leave some on table but safer and could gear to make it up.
     
    Stormbringer likes this.
  8. sideshowBob

    sideshowBob Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    North West Ontario
    "Clutch Component" failure that result in catastrophic clutch failure.
    IMO: These Winders have so much power that they need to be geared, depending on their flash, so they don't fully shift the stock clutches fully on a regular basis.
    JM.02c
     
  9. TPAY243

    TPAY243 Pro

    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    Northern Wis
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2014 Yamaha Sr Viper LTX SE
    Was this a stock or tuned Winder? If it is stock and no tune you have every reason to be upset. But if your running a 300 horse tune on this thing with after market clutch parts it pretty much is what it is and the old saying comes into effect if you want to play you got to pay. These clutches were not designed for what they are being used for. Once you get a clutch to work the belt will be next then the drive train and so on down the line and then the tracks will be coming apart. You guys are making a lot of pony's with these things and something has to give.
     
    MarkAttack, marc001 and Stormbringer like this.
  10. KnappAttack

    KnappAttack 24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,592
    Location:
    Welch MN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
    Any bushing wear in the rollers and they need replaced, but some people don't know how much a little is. Once they start getting even just a little bit of play on the axle, they need to come out. Even just letting off will allow the clutch to shift out and weights swing by the rollers when the bushing is wore out.

    Expensive lesson for the fellow in this case.

    Tune or no tune it makes no difference if the bushing wears thru. Once they star to wear, they will chunk out in no time at all.
     
    MarkAttack, Hammer70, BADSLED and 2 others like this.
  11. cannondale27

    cannondale27 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Vendor Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    18,051
    Location:
    Manitowoc,WI
    We all agree with that but its not reality for some. Either like you said its not realized how wore the rollers are or its a big ride and what was good at beginning of ride is shot by the end. Obviously this new Primary has at least one or more design flaws. This almost never happened with the old Primary. You were comparing Overdrive between the two earlier. Well here is how they got it. So like I asked. Why cant a limiter be installed in clutch?
     
    MarkAttack and BADSLED like this.
  12. 1049triple

    1049triple Expert

    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Pohenegamook, Qc
    We know that roller bushing is the trouble. We just need to inspect them at least every 1000km. In my case I open the clutch almost 3 time a week, and sometimes 10 times a day, so for me this is not a problem. My rollers with duralon bushings are lasting more than 3000km. I dont think installing a limiter is the answer. People will only wear the roller more as they will think it is an insurance. Some people are even looking for more overdrive... Again, the simplest way is to inspect your clutch often. We run top horsepower machine. We should take the time to inspect things carefully at that power level. People that only want to put gas and pin the throttle, sorry but this isn't the sled for them. That's the reality.
     
  13. Crossfire12

    Crossfire12 Expert

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    New York Adirondacks
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 zr9000,F1100 turbo, 700 srx
    LOCATION:
    Sacandaga reservoir
    Big HP 270-300 hp ,etc,should have Pro 4 or TAPP , you pay for HP if you want that much, stay stock, run stock components, safer.
     
  14. hibshman25

    hibshman25 Vendor Vendor VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,206
    Location:
    Lebanon, PA 17042
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 sidewinder ltx dx
    2018 snoscoot
    I am not a clutching guru but i like the idea of a mechanical stop to physically limit travel of sliding sheave to a point that weight can’t pass a severely worn roller. Maybe a bushing/collar on spider shaft for cover to bottom out on?
     
  15. KnappAttack

    KnappAttack 24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,592
    Location:
    Welch MN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE

    The limiter is the two sheaves hitting together and it works as designed. The problems arise as the bushing goes south and the wee bit shorter weights run past them, or the bolt on the roller breaks and/or the nut vibrates off and the bolt falls out of the roller allowing the roller and axle to dislodge from the spider.
     
  16. stevewithOCD

    stevewithOCD Beerman Wannabe Lifetime VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,379
    Location:
    live in CT sled in Millinocket MAINE
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
    My STOCK rollers with my STOCK set up wore out quicker then when i tuned it.
    Of course i went through 5 sets total. I changed them so much the nuts wore out.
    So now i have a whole bag of new nuts & a gallon of Loctite.

    I have more Loctite on my clutches then belt dust now...
     

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