Apex clutch on Sidewinder

[Blue shadow]

I know, thats it and what I recall seeing as well, but how is it happening with same angles, same belt and same dia it shifts to on the primary? Doesn't add up. Only way to get more OD is shift belt up the primary higher or further into the secondary, or use a wider belt. How does that happen with same angles, same belt and belt rides to the same dia on the primaries?

A wider belt by .020" in same length will provide a 2% higher OD as shown by Racepac computer jackshaft and engine speed.

Typically as had been said, is best speed is had staying out of OD. Well unless your drag racing and run em right outta gear thru OD and picking revs before the finish line. Most all trail sleds are geared to stay out of OD, but with the power of the turbos its easy to slip the belt in the primary down low on the holeshot with high gearing and good traction, high gearing is harder on belts also so what do you do? Find a clutch setup to bite the belt harder!

Here is what I know about the Winder, Team and RX-1/Apex clutches as I have ran them all on the Winder.

The Team clutch does not rattle, but it tends to crack because its slips bad down low and heat checks because of the slippage over time. It's worse with heaver drag race usage, and worse with people that stop at stop signs or like to stop and go a lot. They slip so bad down low you can smell belt when using an aftermarket belt on it.

The RX-1 or old style clutch does not fix the rattling, in fact it actually rattles worse than the winder primary, the tower to button clearance is greater and it rattles like a SOB, but it slides freely where the winder primary does not, so I use the old RX-1 primary from now on. Since going to it I've had no belt blowing and its been quicker and faster than my winder primary, and by quite a bit more. I believe the winder primary to be built in China with poor materials that stretch and bend easier causing it to bind up over time.

IMO the best thing to do would be to run the old style Yamaha RX-1/Apex clutch or a TAPP clutch if you have issues with the winder primary. I was hoping to make the TEAM work, and it does work, just not to my liking without some major work, but the problem still remains they like to slip the belt down low, heat check & crack.

So can I still used the stock secondary sidewinder with the RX1 primary clutch or used the secondary from the rx1 also?What belt do I used 8dn or the 8jp?Thanks

 

[KnappAttack]

So can I still used the stock secondary sidewinder with the RX1 primary clutch or used the secondary from the rx1 also?What belt do I used 8dn or the 8jp?Thanks

Yes you can use the winder secondary or a Viper secondary. I found the winder secondary to work best.

You can use either belt, the 8DN or the 8JP. I use the 8JP or the Ultimax 825 depending on the day. The Ultimax will RPM much lower. The 8DN is a longer belt that will gear the machine down a bit both low and high range by about 3-4% along with being a different compound.

A RX-1 secondary will not fit the shaft on the winder.

 

[PowderFalcon]

Yes you can use the winder secondary or a Viper secondary. I found the winder secondary to work best.

You can use either belt, the 8DN or the 8JP. I use the 8JP or the Ultimax 825 depending on the day. The Ultimax will RPM much lower. The 8DN is a longer belt that will gear the machine down a bit both low and high range by about 3-4% along with being a different compound.

A RX-1 secondary will not fit the shaft on the winder.

Have you used an ultimax 824? Has similar specs to 8JP. Maybe best of both worlds?

 

[KnappAttack]

Have you used an ultimax 824? Has similar specs to 8JP. Maybe best of both worlds?

No I haven't, 825 is the 8JP replacement if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Fast]

Yes you can use the winder secondary or a Viper secondary. I found the winder secondary to work best.

You can use either belt, the 8DN or the 8JP. I use the 8JP or the Ultimax 825 depending on the day. The Ultimax will RPM much lower. The 8DN is a longer belt that will gear the machine down a bit both low and high range by about 3-4% along with being a different compound.

A RX-1 secondary will not fit the shaft on the winder.

Mike, do you think a 8jp belt made in china is as good as the one's made in japan, there $72 canadian tax in

 

[KnappAttack]

Mike, do you think a 8jp belt made in china is as good as the one's made in japan, there $72 canadian tax in

I didn't know Mitsuboshi made belts in China, thought they were all made in Japan, never noticed. Learn something new everyday.

I hadn't had much luck with the 8JP's on a tuned Winder until last season when switching to the RX-1 primary clutch. 300 miles was about the limit until the switch to the RX-1 primary.

 

[Fast]

I didn't know Mitsuboshi made belts in China, thought they were all made in Japan, never noticed. Learn something new everyday.

I hadn't had much luck with the 8JP's on a tuned Winder until last season when switching to the RX-1 primary clutch. 300 miles was about the limit until the switch to the RX-1 primary.

Were you buying the 8jp belts on line like from amazon or from a yamaha dealer,seems like amazon carries the china ones

 

[74Nitro]

Were you buying the 8jp belts on line like from amazon or from a yamaha dealer,seems like amazon carries the china ones

I think the OEM Yamaha 8JP belt is an 8JP belt no matter where its sold through.

 

[iceback]

Changed to Apex primary this year , so far with the weights/Spring/911 cover transferred from SW primary , Apex 14.5 rollers and new side washers on cam arms and rollers this clutch is far quieter than the SW . Running 8DN , only have road rides in last 2 days , looks great so far . 270 SS high elevation tune .

 

[PowderFalcon]

Changed to Apex primary this year , so far with the weights/Spring/911 cover transferred from SW primary , Apex 14.5 rollers and new side washers on cam arms and rollers this clutch is far quieter than the SW . Running 8DN , only have road rides in last 2 days , looks great so far . 270 SS high elevation tune .

Interesting... i just switched mine to an apex primary. Have only ran it on the stand, but I found it to be louder than my SW primary.
I don’t have a 911 cover, but the rest of the components are the same

 

[TPAY243]

It's not so much the clutch that makes all the noise it is the spline on the stub and crank shaft that has a lot to do with it also.

 

[iceback]

I understand the stub and splines make up most of the rattling but Apex clutch in is noticable quite compared to SW which was embarrassing on a warm day lol .
And the fact that it may hold a belt now .

 

[74Nitro]

If using the old clutch, shim the cam sliders with the yamaha 0.003 shims and change the cam slider with the 0-ring on the other side as they certainly wear and start to turn sideways.
I don't want to get into an argument as to where the noise comes from as we have been there, but this defintitely helps.

 

[KnappAttack]

It's not so much the clutch that makes all the noise it is the spline on the stub and crank shaft that has a lot to do with it also.

I disagree with this statement... Install a TEAM primary and no noise, install a PB80 and no noise, install a TAPP and no noise. The rattle comes from the Yamaha primaries. If it were the spines it would rattle with every primary, but it doesn't.

If using the old clutch, shim the cam sliders with the yamaha 0.003 shims and change the cam slider with the 0-ring on the other side as they certainly wear and start to turn sideways.
I don't want to get into an argument as to where the noise comes from as we have been there, but this defintitely helps.

Exactly, the noise on the old primary is louder on both my RX-1 primary and my buddies Apex primary because or the added clearance on the tower buttons. The problem we both saw is the movable wants to bind hard on the winder primary where the old primaries move easily like they should. I want them to move freely so let it rattle. It does not seem to hurt anything, the three cylinders have been rattling their Yamaha primaries since day one.

 

[74Nitro]

I disagree with this statement... Install a TEAM primary and no noise, install a PB80 and no noise, install a TAPP and no noise. The rattle comes from the Yamaha primaries. If it were the spines it would rattle with every primary, but it doesn't.



Exactly, the noise on the old primary is louder on both my RX-1 primary and my buddies Apex primary because or the added clearance on the tower buttons. The problem we both saw is the movable wants to bind hard on the winder primary where the old primaries move easily like they should. I want them to move freely so let it rattle. It does not seem to hurt anything, the three cylinders have been rattling their Yamaha primaries since day one.

Mike, I know on the bench it doesn't slide freely with the spider shimmed. I don't think it matters on the sled when running, but thats just me...