Apex vrs Dragon 800

[RTX DUDE]

race

My buds 02 800 Pro x isn't stock and is fast, but my little old Apex beats it every time. the new 800 will not be much of a challenge I'm sure as long as it's on ice or hardpack.

 

[bobber]

Yesterday the weather warmed up enough for my son and I to go out for a ride. He came home for the holidays so nice that we got out for one ride before he heads back to College.
Few years ago I bought him a held-over '03 600HO Rev. Dropped gearing 1 size, installed 136" 1&1/2" track, Dynamo Joe clutch kit, a Dyno-Port pipe/can set-up and Holtzman ATTAC carb set-up. It gave my MXZ800X fits trying to catch it. F-7's, RX1's.. same thing. After yesterday I know the Apex wouldn't either. In 2 feet fresh snow on a Power Line I topped at 143Km/hr and he was still motoring away. Cann't say for sure with hardpack because didn't find a stretch we would of felt safe on but after riding his machine and feeling how quick it is... doubt I catch it. It has seen, on its speedometer, over 180km/hr
In early 90's Ski Doo had the first Formula's... some were VERY quick compared to others. Polaris same thing with first year XLT's. Cats F'7 ditto. I am sure manufacturers 'tweak' some units and sell to consumers for 'field testing'... see what works and what doesn't... easy enough to do when machine getting serviced... espicially with computer programming now controlling machines.
So comparisons between 'friends' machine probably wouldn't achieve same result when compared to another similar machine. Lots of people, myself included, have been choked when a machine with 200-400cc less passes and you cann't catch it.
And fuel... both took exactly 20 liters when filled up.

 

[stoutner]

See you their and we will try not to get to drunk this time.

LOL...yes we will

 

[SledFreak]

Yesterday the weather warmed up enough for my son and I to go out for a ride. He came home for the holidays so nice that we got out for one ride before he heads back to College.
Few years ago I bought him a held-over '03 600HO Rev. Dropped gearing 1 size, installed 136" 1&1/2" track, Dynamo Joe clutch kit, a Dyno-Port pipe/can set-up and Holtzman ATTAC carb set-up. It gave my MXZ800X fits trying to catch it. F-7's, RX1's.. same thing. After yesterday I know the Apex wouldn't either. In 2 feet fresh snow on a Power Line I topped at 143Km/hr and he was still motoring away. Cann't say for sure with hardpack because didn't find a stretch we would of felt safe on but after riding his machine and feeling how quick it is... doubt I catch it. It has seen, on its speedometer, over 180km/hr
In early 90's Ski Doo had the first Formula's... some were VERY quick compared to others. Polaris same thing with first year XLT's. Cats F'7 ditto. I am sure manufacturers 'tweak' some units and sell to consumers for 'field testing'... see what works and what doesn't... easy enough to do when machine getting serviced... espicially with computer programming now controlling machines.
So comparisons between 'friends' machine probably wouldn't achieve same result when compared to another similar machine. Lots of people, myself included, have been choked when a machine with 200-400cc less passes and you cann't catch it.
And fuel... both took exactly 20 liters when filled up.

No offence dude, but you cannot compare racing in Powder and racing on hardpack... It just does not happen and the outcome's are basically are not going to show who is faster, since the bigger hp sled is going to spin way more.... Gicve them both the same traction and you will see a different outcome..

 

[stoutner]

that 800r was completely stock!!!!!!!!!the race was on a hard packed lake--don't know where all these bad conditions and deep snow were??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!klocker

 

[Blue Dave]

Stouter,

I believe that Sled Freak was replying to Bobber's comments.

In any case, I think that anyone who has ever ridden their Apex in deep snow would agree that this is not where the Apex shines. In fact, it really sucks at deep snow riding.

On hard packed snow I have yet to be beat. However I have not raced the new Doo & Poo 800's yet.

 

[bobber]

Yesterday the weather warmed up enough for my son and I to go out for a ride. He came home for the holidays so nice that we got out for one ride before he heads back to College.
Few years ago I bought him a held-over '03 600HO Rev. Dropped gearing 1 size, installed 136" 1&1/2" track, Dynamo Joe clutch kit, a Dyno-Port pipe/can set-up and Holtzman ATTAC carb set-up. It gave my MXZ800X fits trying to catch it. F-7's, RX1's.. same thing. After yesterday I know the Apex wouldn't either. In 2 feet fresh snow on a Power Line I topped at 143Km/hr and he was still motoring away. Cann't say for sure with hardpack because didn't find a stretch we would of felt safe on but after riding his machine and feeling how quick it is... doubt I catch it. It has seen, on its speedometer, over 180km/hr
In early 90's Ski Doo had the first Formula's... some were VERY quick compared to others. Polaris same thing with first year XLT's. Cats F'7 ditto. I am sure manufacturers 'tweak' some units and sell to consumers for 'field testing'... see what works and what doesn't... easy enough to do when machine getting serviced... espicially with computer programming now controlling machines.
So comparisons between 'friends' machine probably wouldn't achieve same result when compared to another similar machine. Lots of people, myself included, have been choked when a machine with 200-400cc less passes and you cann't catch it.
And fuel... both took exactly 20 liters when filled up.

No offence dude, but you cannot compare racing in Powder and racing on hardpack... It just does not happen and the outcome's are basically are not going to show who is faster, since the bigger hp sled is going to spin way more.... Gicve them both the same traction and you will see a different outcome..

None taken. However just wanted to point out there some fairly potent machines out there so comparing one against another similar not really fair. As for a 600cc out running a 1000cc machine... well snow or no snow... either ones a dog or other is 'special' considering both have equal traction over a couple of kilometers. I've ran my MXZ800X against it on both snow and hardpack... whoever got the jump kept the lead and nothing else. Bigger machines, supposedly faster/quicker as well have been shocked by not being able to catch it. Only place I could really see a difference was in the mountains, and it was a big difference.
I'm sure all manufacturers 'tweak' some machines right from the build. Wish all my machines were those!

 

[stoutner]

The best part of this is this coming week, we will be lining up the 800R, Apex RTX, Dragon 800, Z1 Turbo, and probably another Apex or two. Hope we can find a Nyro to race with also. It's gonna be sweet.

 

[newrx1guy]

Yesterday the weather warmed up enough for my son and I to go out for a ride. He came home for the holidays so nice that we got out for one ride before he heads back to College.
Few years ago I bought him a held-over '03 600HO Rev. Dropped gearing 1 size, installed 136" 1&1/2" track, Dynamo Joe clutch kit, a Dyno-Port pipe/can set-up and Holtzman ATTAC carb set-up. It gave my MXZ800X fits trying to catch it. F-7's, RX1's.. same thing. After yesterday I know the Apex wouldn't either. In 2 feet fresh snow on a Power Line I topped at 143Km/hr and he was still motoring away. Cann't say for sure with hardpack because didn't find a stretch we would of felt safe on but after riding his machine and feeling how quick it is... doubt I catch it. It has seen, on its speedometer, over 180km/hr
In early 90's Ski Doo had the first Formula's... some were VERY quick compared to others. Polaris same thing with first year XLT's. Cats F'7 ditto. I am sure manufacturers 'tweak' some units and sell to consumers for 'field testing'... see what works and what doesn't... easy enough to do when machine getting serviced... espicially with computer programming now controlling machines.
So comparisons between 'friends' machine probably wouldn't achieve same result when compared to another similar machine. Lots of people, myself included, have been choked when a machine with 200-400cc less passes and you cann't catch it.
And fuel... both took exactly 20 liters when filled up.

No offence dude, but you cannot compare racing in Powder and racing on hardpack... It just does not happen and the outcome's are basically are not going to show who is faster, since the bigger hp sled is going to spin way more.... Gicve them both the same traction and you will see a different outcome..

How you doin against Roy's F-1000?He's been braggin again lol

 

[RTXs]

Wayner can't wait!!!!!!! I may have to put my clutch kit back in...

 

[SledFreak]

Yesterday the weather warmed up enough for my son and I to go out for a ride. He came home for the holidays so nice that we got out for one ride before he heads back to College.
Few years ago I bought him a held-over '03 600HO Rev. Dropped gearing 1 size, installed 136" 1&1/2" track, Dynamo Joe clutch kit, a Dyno-Port pipe/can set-up and Holtzman ATTAC carb set-up. It gave my MXZ800X fits trying to catch it. F-7's, RX1's.. same thing. After yesterday I know the Apex wouldn't either. In 2 feet fresh snow on a Power Line I topped at 143Km/hr and he was still motoring away. Cann't say for sure with hardpack because didn't find a stretch we would of felt safe on but after riding his machine and feeling how quick it is... doubt I catch it. It has seen, on its speedometer, over 180km/hr
In early 90's Ski Doo had the first Formula's... some were VERY quick compared to others. Polaris same thing with first year XLT's. Cats F'7 ditto. I am sure manufacturers 'tweak' some units and sell to consumers for 'field testing'... see what works and what doesn't... easy enough to do when machine getting serviced... espicially with computer programming now controlling machines.
So comparisons between 'friends' machine probably wouldn't achieve same result when compared to another similar machine. Lots of people, myself included, have been choked when a machine with 200-400cc less passes and you cann't catch it.
And fuel... both took exactly 20 liters when filled up.

No offence dude, but you cannot compare racing in Powder and racing on hardpack... It just does not happen and the outcome's are basically are not going to show who is faster, since the bigger hp sled is going to spin way more.... Gicve them both the same traction and you will see a different outcome..

How you doin against Roy's F-1000?He's been braggin again lol

He's always braggin... LOL.. Mike's worried... Because if he wasn't, he would not have added the Speedwerx pipe, V-force reeds and his Boondocker for this year, just to make sure he's got me covered. At least that's what he thinks.. All I did for this year was add the cobra track (the same as what he did at the end of last year) and I changed the oil.. I still have to add some more studs to equal his 171 studs. I have 144.. His 190hp to my 165ish? You would think he would blow the doors off me. He's very far from stock, but claims like he is and that the F1000 is the sled to beat and is the best thing since sliced bread, but he has not showed it yet, especially in stock forum... It's quite funny actually.. Nice Arctic Cat... When we do race and if I lose, I still have some more left on the table, which I will then show my hand, but I will wait to see first.. I also look at it like this.... I should lose... I'm out gunned by alot of hp... I'm sure to tell him that all the time.. His sled is easily 20hp more than me in stock forum. He should beat me. He hates when I say that..


P.S.. Next time you see him, tell him you heard I was running NOS.. You might as well get the paddles out because he will be in cardiac arrest....

 

[SledFreak]

that 800r was completely stock!!!!!!!!!the race was on a hard packed lake--don't know where all these bad conditions and deep snow were??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!klocker

easy dude, I was not even replying to your post... I held myself back especially after Blurred Visions replied. Did not seem like you guys were talking about the same race?

 

[stoutner]

that 800r was completely stock!!!!!!!!!the race was on a hard packed lake--don't know where all these bad conditions and deep snow were??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!klocker

easy dude, I was not even replying to your post... I held myself back especially after Blurred Visions replied. Did not seem like you guys were talking about the same race?

That post was not by me...it was by my buddy (klocker) with the 800R. He is too lazy to get his own username and password so he highjacked mine.

 

[stoutner]

The best part of this is this coming week, we will be lining up the 800R, Apex RTX, Dragon 800, Z1 Turbo, and probably another Apex or two. Hope we can find a Nyro to race with also. It's gonna be sweet.

Well, we lined em up last weekend. Here is what we found....

Stock Apex, Apex with clutching, Stock 800R, Stock Dragon 800 with Power Commander.

Basically whoever won he start won the race. I ran my D8 (with PCIII) against Blurred Vision's Apex with some clutching. Apex won more of the races due to better traction and more studs. We did two rolling starts and Apex won once Dragon won once. To be fair, his Apex was pulling about 1 mile per hour more than my Dragon but that could have been the line he took or the traction he was getting. We all agreed that the 4 sleds there would run pretty much identical.

The same went for the stock Apex (RTXs sled) which I killed out of the hole all weekend long. He just couldn't hook up. To be fair though, he did hook up on the last race of the weekend and beat me and the 800R.

We also did some long 1/2 mile runs on the lake and basically we all were again pretty much identical. I think my Dragon was maybe a mile and hour or two faster than the Apex and 800R but really can't say for sure. I ran 112 MPH on my speedo which I think is about 4-5 MPH high....so, 107 or 108 or so was the best I could get that day. I think RTXs' Apex got 116 on the speedo which is about 105 or 106 MPH

Bottom line is that these sleds are pretty much identical...you better get a good start if you want to win the race.

P.S. I did line up against a clutched Apex with 144 Roetin Hornets that were sticking out about 1/4" past his lugs and he was killing every relatively stock sled on the lake. He was hooking up and blowing us all away by ten sled lengths at the start. Bottom line...want to win, get traction.

 

[SledFreak]

A good running 600 can give a Stock Apex fits... Stud the Apex with 1.45 studs and it will give every big iron the snow flap. They need traction to show there true ability... I learned that after going from 120 1.325 studs to 144 1.450 studs. I litterally gained about 6 sled lengths out of the hole just from going to the longer studs... Add a cobra track, studs, PCIII/igntion controller, gearing and some good clutching and your dragon won't have a prayer... LOL.. Just ribbin you... But you get my point.. I think they run that good, especially on glare ice, that's where they really prove they are a contender...