Apex vs Viper???

Trust me....you won't get anywhere near the test facility....Once in awhile through the years someone sees something out on the trails (in that area)...but it's very rare....I do know they tested the vmax 4 out on squirrel lake...several people saw it out there...but they didn't know what it was, until it was released....I know they test outta Pat's in Greenland too....but you will almost never see them, and when you do, they won't let you get near the machines, and they button up the trailers quickly...they also won't answer any questions....they just smile and nod.

I also love my XTX....was just curious about the viper....I do feel my rear skid on the xtx is too stiff....I am looking forward to reports on the single shot...I have always felt the mono was an under rated suspension (2011 and newer)..the first editions of it weren't great...but Yamaha has worked through the years to make it better...it's a very nice plush ride, that very few sleds can match...where it wasn't as good was on rough trails or with aggressive riders....average trail joes, and older riders love it.
so..we will see how the new single shot fares.

If Yamaha comes with a new model with EPS, and a different chassis (a 100 percent Yamaha)....a bit lighter with some of the features of the viper...I would be interested for sure....I guess we will find out next spring
 
Heritage said:
Trust me....you won't get anywhere near the test facility....Once in awhile through the years someone sees something out on the trails (in that area)...but it's very rare....I do know they tested the vmax 4 out on squirrel lake...several people saw it out there...but they didn't know what it was, until it was released....I know they test outta Pat's in Greenland too....but you will almost never see them, and when you do, they won't let you get near the machines, and they button up the trailers quickly...they also won't answer any questions....they just smile and nod.

I also love my XTX....was just curious about the viper....I do feel my rear skid on the xtx is too stiff....I am looking forward to reports on the single shot...I have always felt the mono was an under rated suspension (2011 and newer)..the first editions of it weren't great...but Yamaha has worked through the years to make it better...it's a very nice plush ride, that very few sleds can match...where it wasn't as good was on rough trails or with aggressive riders....average trail joes, and older riders love it.
so..we will see how the new single shot fares.

If Yamaha comes with a new model with EPS, and a different chassis (a 100 percent Yamaha)....a bit lighter with some of the features of the viper...I would be interested for sure....I guess we will find out next spring
Click to expand...

Have you considered the Star kit for the XTX ?
I did most all the upgrades that numerous/various TY Apex riders suggested , before I rode my 2015 at all .
All those Apex owners can't be wrong .
I added the star kit , hyfax saver kit , WRP seat , lake effects riser , stiffer sway bar , HID lights , ice scratchers , snowtrackers ,cant recall what else.
As I wanted it to be as good as it could be .
There was a lot of comments about stiffness in the suspension , so the Star kit was the answer .
I used to fear going off trail with the GT , but now I am the one breaking trail with the 144 tipped , and the power steering , WOW !
When I totaled my GT , I had a Viper for a weekend , and was not able to get it to a point that I could say I liked it , as it was stiff , ANDDDDDD lacked the power I was so used to with the Apex , and in the end the engine was the main reason I went back with an Apex , and the XTX specifically ,based on so many owners preferring the long track to the shorty .
I am considering adding the Yamacharger , for a little more on the lake , but probably wont , as that may make me keep it longer , even if the NEW APEX comes out next year .
 
I did and am still thinking about the star kit, and those DuPont slides....I may be keeping this xtx for awhile too. I really like it....it's so much better than my 07 attak gt....everything I disliked about the 07... Yamaha addressed on the 2011...but you cant tell that to anyone who owned a 2010 and earlier apex that didn't like em.. (especially if they switched to yellow)...the heavy steering, the engine breaking, the darting, the 40 mph howl... (still there but not as bad as the earlier models)..the hand warmers work well...and I haven't had to replace any wheels in 4,000 miles....very happy with this sled....if I do keep it, and add the star kit...and duponts...I might also do Ulmer's clutch kit and air box mod....I don't really need the sled to be faster...but his clutch kits are awesome (had a stage two on my 07)...it pulls even harder through the mid range, and the back shifter is better...what a rush.....might replace my driveline bearings next spring just because (approaching 5,000 miles)...other than that...I'll leave her be
 
Heritage : I told you the Apex XTX was stiff not plush like mono but Viper not the answer either. I have bud with Viper logged some miles on the sled & it was ok 130 hp is 130hp certainly not 164 hp...no way you will like the 3 holer over the 4 even when riding Tomahawk twistys. It is the kick of the xtx skid that I have been trying to tame too & star probably does that. The only time I find the xtx skid lacking is in severe unplowed bombed out Frs. The mono would smooth that out the xtx will kick your butt. I hardened up clicker on rear shock & that helps tune out some of the kick + run cam block on hard. Now that I have snow trackers on the rear has been softened up to take pressure off the skis so I will have to see how this combo works this year. The viper I rode also kicked up ice chunks from side on MI 15 pipeline trail from Lanse & I didn't like that at all. I led on 107 south and the Viper was way behind just could not keep up with Apex xtx nothing terrible just a minute or so behind but he was struggling with the ruff conditions where my xtx just banged thru at high speed. Viper has knees bent back compared to Apex but was ok just different. Either sled is a good sled but I prefer Apex just better fit for me & eps in twistys works great for me.
 
I know..it's more stiff than a mono...it does work well in rougher conditions than my mono did....but I do miss some of that plushness (that's why I am sooooo interested in the single shot)....it's not terrible by any means...just sayin it's stiffer than I am used to....again...the EPS is awesome...can't say enough about it...anybody who used to have sore arms or shoulders from throwing around a sled...will love it...I was very skeptical of eps when it came out...after riding a sled with it...I don't know if I want to go without it (one of the reasons I'm leary of the viper).....I have seen video of clutched vipers with a few minor mods running 105-109 mph...(Ulmer's kits, Hurricane...etc)..that's only a couple of mph slower than our apexes....and nearly 60 lbs lighter...which does make me curious about the viper....as you can see from the above posts...there is NO clear cut answer to my question
 
Yep you are curious I guess...not so much for me the Viper won't do. Single shot reports say the rear out performs the front so more changes coming if not a new Apex platform in 2017. Yamaha/ Cat OEM agreement will close out soon for 5 year term & neither company jumping to an extension or we would hear about it. I expect a new Apex in 2017 unless 2015/2016 is a snowless year. If you like the Viper go for it might be right for you certainly a good sled for what it is but not an Apex SE or XTX in my view. As you know Pat"s has bunch of Vipers used going thru every week.
 
As much as I'd love to see a new Apex next year, I'm not holding my breath. With Yamaha's 50th ann. in 2018, I think that is when we will see the new flagship.

I bought a 2014 XF 9000 last year, so same chassis as the Viper. While I like the rider forward and suspension, I still miss my Apex, and that is with MORE power on the Cat. The low end snap and the sound of the 4 holer is unbeatable. I also miss the engine brake - the Cat still has it, but not nearly as pronounced (not sure how the Viper compares). I hope they don't go to a 3 hole turbo in the new Apex if/when it comes out. The motor IMO is what absolutely makes it what it is.
 
Heritage said:
I did and am still thinking about the star kit, and those DuPont slides....I may be keeping this xtx for awhile too. I really like it....it's so much better than my 07 attak gt....everything I disliked about the 07... Yamaha addressed on the 2011...but you cant tell that to anyone who owned a 2010 and earlier apex that didn't like em.. (especially if they switched to yellow)...the heavy steering, the engine breaking, the darting, the 40 mph howl... (still there but not as bad as the earlier models)..the hand warmers work well...and I haven't had to replace any wheels in 4,000 miles....very happy with this sled....if I do keep it, and add the star kit...and duponts...I might also do Ulmer's clutch kit and air box mod....I don't really need the sled to be faster...but his clutch kits are awesome (had a stage two on my 07)...it pulls even harder through the mid range, and the back shifter is better...what a rush.....might replace my driveline bearings next spring just because (approaching 5,000 miles)...other than that...I'll leave her be
Click to expand...
Assuming you meant you had the Yamacharger installed , describe what it does , and what clutching you also needed .
 
I don't have the Yamacharger installed...somebody else was talking about that....just get Allan's kit...IMO...you don't gain all that much with a yamacharger for the cost...if you really want to fly turbo or super charge an apex...I have zero need for that much speed....you can get more mid range and better back shifting with a good clutch kit like Allan's, and it's not too bad money wise...good bang for the buck (depending on what you do..there are different levels...air box mod, fuel controller, machined clutch sheeves..etc....that can add up...just a clutch kit is not bad in price, and a fun upgrade)
 
Low money = buy Apex with the R1 sportbike motorcycle engine in it. 50,000 miles on a motorcycle engine is nothing.
 
Read my posts I put 4000 miles on my Viper and at the end of last year I took my 06 Apex out with 11000 miles on it. Well I had more fun on that sled in 200 miles than 4000 on the Viper. The weight difference doesn’t matter because they are both to heavy. If you are riding groomed trails it’s a no brainer Apex all the way. Tight trail riding you are going to hate the viper after the power steering. In 14 I road a new Apex and the Viper coming off a 08 Apex GT the Apex was awesome and I would have bought the Apex hands down. I am handicapped and I couldn’t get my foot out of the tunnel well in an emergences situation so the setting position of the viper was where I had to be. But now modern medicine took care of that problem. I put more money in my Viper new than the 16 other new sleds I have owned put together just to make it right. The viper changes so much with snow conditions it’s enough to make you puke. In the morning you hit 90 MPG and the same run in the afternoon 85 MPG to sled is enough to drive you to drink. Put the sled in 8” of powered forget about it you are lucky to hit 65 or 70 MPG out on the lake. My viper never left me stranded but always had some little thing wrong to drive me crazy. Yes everyone says same sled for the last 10 years looks yes but the new Apex is so refined so far I am very pleased. Porsche 911 has looked the same forever you can’t argue with perfection. I WILL NEVER BUY A YAMACAT AGAIN NEVER I WILL JUMP SHIP FRIST.
 
Apex1958 said:
Read my posts I put 4000 miles on my Viper and at the end of last year I took my 06 Apex out with 11000 miles on it. Well I had more fun on that sled in 200 miles than 4000 on the Viper. The weight difference doesn’t matter because they are both to heavy. If you are riding groomed trails it’s a no brainer Apex all the way. Tight trail riding you are going to hate the viper after the power steering. In 14 I road a new Apex and the Viper coming off a 08 Apex GT the Apex was awesome and I would have bought the Apex hands down. I am handicapped and I couldn’t get my foot out of the tunnel well in an emergences situation so the setting position of the viper was where I had to be. But now modern medicine took care of that problem. I put more money in my Viper new than the 16 other new sleds I have owned put together just to make it right. The viper changes so much with snow conditions it’s enough to make you puke. In the morning you hit 90 MPG and the same run in the afternoon 85 MPG to sled is enough to drive you to drink. Put the sled in 8” of powered forget about it you are lucky to hit 65 or 70 MPG out on the lake. My viper never left me stranded but always had some little thing wrong to drive me crazy. Yes everyone says same sled for the last 10 years looks yes but the new Apex is so refined so far I am very pleased. Porsche 911 has looked the same forever you can’t argue with perfection. I WILL NEVER BUY A YAMACAT AGAIN NEVER I WILL JUMP SHIP FRIST.
Click to expand...


X2
Had a viper also briefly.
And I really did have my smile back when I traded it for another new apex and have it the throttle.
The fit and finish is absolutely horrible on viper.
 
Apex1958 said:
Read my posts I put 4000 miles on my Viper and at the end of last year I took my 06 Apex out with 11000 miles on it. Well I had more fun on that sled in 200 miles than 4000 on the Viper. The weight difference doesn’t matter because they are both to heavy. If you are riding groomed trails it’s a no brainer Apex all the way. Tight trail riding you are going to hate the viper after the power steering. In 14 I road a new Apex and the Viper coming off a 08 Apex GT the Apex was awesome and I would have bought the Apex hands down. I am handicapped and I couldn’t get my foot out of the tunnel well in an emergences situation so the setting position of the viper was where I had to be. But now modern medicine took care of that problem. I put more money in my Viper new than the 16 other new sleds I have owned put together just to make it right. The viper changes so much with snow conditions it’s enough to make you puke. In the morning you hit 90 MPG and the same run in the afternoon 85 MPG to sled is enough to drive you to drink. Put the sled in 8” of powered forget about it you are lucky to hit 65 or 70 MPG out on the lake. My viper never left me stranded but always had some little thing wrong to drive me crazy. Yes everyone says same sled for the last 10 years looks yes but the new Apex is so refined so far I am very pleased. Porsche 911 has looked the same forever you can’t argue with perfection. I WILL NEVER BUY A YAMACAT AGAIN NEVER I WILL JUMP SHIP FRIST.
Click to expand...
wow i would love to get 20 mpg but i bet you meant MPH.
 
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