APEX's - play/slop in steering?

The play is reduced some when on the snow because your not trying to turn carbides on a showroom floor sideways your doing it at speed and the parts arent flexing very much.

60+ trail speeds I can use one hand and roll just fine, no effect on darting when you get the front end set up right.

Its good to be critical, make the dealer do his work, if they cant be patient with you at the time of sale when will they?
 
Kinger, you've added some very valuable insight...thanks. Let me pose a question - is it unrealistic to expect a dealer to signficantly address steering play on an '09 APEX with low miles? I need to get a feel for whether I'm the one being unrealistic here.

Also....if the "play" in this steering train becomes more pronounced, is this considered normal wear and tear, over and above YES coverage?
 
Fusion said:
Kinger, you've added some very valuable insight...thanks. Let me pose a question - is it unrealistic to expect a dealer to signficantly address steering play on an '09 APEX with low miles? I need to get a feel for whether I'm the one being unrealistic here.

Also....if the "play" in this steering train becomes more pronounced, is this considered normal wear and tear, over and above YES coverage?
Click to expand...

My dealer wouldnt cover bushings, you can easily fix them if you wanted to

Ya, I know, shouldnt have to, but you gotta do what you gotta do if you want tight steering
 
WARNING...The play in the steering should not be trivialized or ignored. In soft snow with a frozen crust the sled becomes unrideable and extremely dangerous. Sure you can stay in the throttle and it doesn't matter, but you gotta get out sooner or later and when you do...she turns all by herself and right now. It doesn't matter how strong you are because the ski's turn even though you are holding the bars straight. Ride at a steady speed and it's right, left, right, left until you get tossed. :o| All you can do is poach a trail back to the trailer and get out the whiskey. :drink: I replaced the three 2-piece bushings, but there is a white end cap bushing at the top of the long down tube that was responsible for 1/2 the play. All the bushings total less than 10 bucks, and the tear down is routine by now for any Apex owner. :die I will change them every season from now on. I don't know if I can get my hands on those aftermarket bushings up here in Canada.
 
Put snowtrackers on it and you will have zero problems with the darting.
 
hayastusa said:
WARNING...The play in the steering should not be trivialized or ignored. In soft snow with a frozen crust the sled becomes unrideable and extremely dangerous. Sure you can stay in the throttle and it doesn't matter, but you gotta get out sooner or later and when you do...she turns all by herself and right now. It doesn't matter how strong you are because the ski's turn even though you are holding the bars straight. Ride at a steady speed and it's right, left, right, left until you get tossed. :o| All you can do is poach a trail back to the trailer and get out the whiskey. :drink: I replaced the three 2-piece bushings, but there is a white end cap bushing at the top of the long down tube that was responsible for 1/2 the play. All the bushings total less than 10 bucks, and the tear down is routine by now for any Apex owner. :die I will change them every season from now on.
Click to expand...

Wow - this is exactly as I envisioned, and was afraid of. But now I have more questions - is the reason for the darting these machines are known for a result of the steering play, or is the darting a separate issue entirely, all related to the smallish stock carbides, and stock ski's? :o|

It's hard for me to imagine this "play" in the steering column wouldn't have any noticeable effect on handling regardless of whether you are turning on asphalt or nice freshly groomed packed powder. Honestly, with my '09 Vector I rode the thing all season with the stock ski's and carbides, never having put my Shaper bars on, and I noticed no significant darting. I can't wait to get up north and check my Vector on concrete to see if the play is similar. Every time I think I shouldn't be worried about this, I get another indication my concerns are justified. The problem is there are degree's of wear in the bushings from sled to sled, and this creates the variable that makes comparison and conclusion difficult. :o|
 
I have over 11,000 miles on my sled, and have some play in the steering. I've had many people drive it and they never complained about FEELING slop and or darting. They do comment how nice it handles though. I do run pilots skis,and keep the a arm bushings tight,and the proper towout.
 
Now my 09' Apex binds when you turn to the right, I had the sled on the lift over the weekend oiled the crap out of the steering componants but it did not help one bit. Is this an issue that can be solved with an updated steering block??
 
Binding is not normal, some play is. I wouldn't expect a dealer will help you on the play. If its significantly worse then say a brand new one sitting next to the low mile one then maybe.

Otherwise I think your seriously over thinking it and need to test drive one and see for yourself it doesn't matter.


What hayastusa said happened on my RX1 with the alumn steering column (aftermarket) but never with the stock set up. Its not the steerings fault the snow conditions suck, you some sense and drive differently when in those conditions.
 
GIMME SNOW said:
Now my 09' Apex binds when you turn to the right, I had the sled on the lift over the weekend oiled the crap out of the steering componants but it did not help one bit. Is this an issue that can be solved with an updated steering block??
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound like a steering block issue. You may want to double check that the tie rods are sliding through the rubber boots smoothly. Put the skis back on the ground for that check, you don't want the suspension hanging to give you a false "hang up". If your bushings ( or other things ) are worn, you will get the back and forth movement in the handlebars without the skis moving.

scmurs
 
i hate the slop also. BUT ,it has never translated into control problems in any condition for me. Wait, stock,yes darts like a scared rabbit. After shimming the rubber bumper under ski mount and stud boy Douce bars on the stock skis it is perfect. I have been know to ride the throttle with my left had to give my thumb a rest at speed. Thats how much i trust it.
I shaved the plastic blocks down and have maybe 1" play at end of bars.

Buy it

10,000km on her
 
ROCKRTX said:
This is what i did to cure the slack.

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... t=steering
Click to expand...

Sanding the bushings will only create an "egg-shaped" bushing on a round shaft. In other words, it will still have play in one direction. The stock bushings have way too much clearance when they are brand new and then they wear even more. Using a harder material that is permanently lubricated ( oilite ) that is machined to a more appropriate tolerance for the shaft size will create a better fit and a lot better wear characteristics. If you're going through all of the effort to tear it down, why rebuild it with the same crummy parts? Just my .02

scmurs

www.OFTRacing.com
 
scmurs said:
ROCKRTX said:
This is what i did to cure the slack.

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... t=steering
Click to expand...

Sanding the bushings will only create an "egg-shaped" bushing on a round shaft. In other words, it will still have play in one direction. The stock bushings have way too much clearance when they are brand new and then they wear even more. Using a harder material that is permanently lubricated ( oilite ) that is machined to a more appropriate tolerance for the shaft size will create a better fit and a lot better wear characteristics. If you're going through all of the effort to tear it down, why rebuild it with the same crummy parts? Just my .02

scmurs

www.OFTRacing.com
Click to expand...

I did not tear all the sled just for this.
This mod idea was taken from Mikeknapp
The egg shape was more top and bottom than side to side so sanding it bring the round shape back.At the time there was no Aftermarket solution and this mod cost me 0$ to try it and after one season it still tight.

Other place that have play is at the end of the second shaft were is the oil tank,that steering link got some play.Do a stronger one and ill buy it!
 
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