Best Helix

[ROCKERDAN]

What rpm is the black/green engaging at approx.? I know different weights have effect on engagement as well, is it much more than stock?

For me it was too high for my liking....I liked the blue much better for engage.

I will do much much more thorough testing this season and notes, as this is my own sled. Last season was all done on Toms winder and did not have the time to spend dialing like I would normally.

Things like springs are cheap(relatively) so I tend to order a few in the range I like. Dale knows me all too well this way, and so then I can test springs back to back and see what I like best.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Great work Dale....

Looks like you now have more choices for helix's in addition to your new primary springs for the winders...

Will be talking alot more with you this winter brother!

Dan

 

[helix]

Engagement on this sled can vary a LOT when you consider the different flyweights available....different profiles and placement of mass.
Dalton weights are untucked a fair amount at the point of belt contact, and load the belt a lot at engagement, and therefore some find they are a bit lower engagement than some others. But this belt squeeze is a good thing to help prevent unnecessary slippage and heat.

With most of our Dalton weights ( as long as you have at least some weight in them), ..Black green is most popular. It isn't that high for most...or so it seems, since it is most popular. A lot are running it with a lot of weight in higher boost programs and therefore, depending on base set and set up , around 3500 plus I think....but in other set ups it could be higher.
When you consider that we had demand for even higher engagement, maybe that puts it in perspective.

We sell a lot of black / blue as well, and quite a few of the black / red if they want slightly lower engagement than stock spring.

With some other weights , it may be that other spring rates are preferred. Of course, we never know where all springs end up. I'm just mentioning what I have seen as popular.

We try to make some of the most requested tuning options available. ....because there are a lot of different preferences out there. More options is always good.
The nice thing is that springs are relatively inexpensive, and only a few minutes to change....so it's pretty easy to experiment on your own and see what you prefer.

 

[helix]

Great work Dale....

Looks like you now have more choices for helix's in addition to your new primary springs for the winders...

Will be talking alot more with you this winter brother!

Dan

You bet Dan, seems like it never ends with requests for new angle options. I know it is a relatively new clutch, but I honestly thought that would slow down by now. The list grows.

 

[Fleecer]

I put 1600 miles on my stock Winder last year with zero issues with belts. My belt still looks new and all three of my stock rollers are touching the helix. I do however have a primary roller that is froze. I have since bought a thunder products clutch kit that comes with heavy hitter weights, orange primary spring and glide washers. I also got the orange secondary spring and 33/35 helix. I will be getting the new secondary rollers and primary rollers under warranty first before I put all the new stuff on . You might want to try the sled stock and put some miles on before trying anything and if you do decide to go with the spring and helix why not just blow a few more bucks like I did and get the whole kit?

Your frozen primary roller is due to the bushing not being centered inside the roller. Remove the roller, put in vise and squeeze ends of roller. This will press the inner bushing in a couple mm and you'll be good to go. I had the same issue and this fixed it. Hope this helps.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Guys, the 33/35 helix will give you better holeshot and corner to corner grunt. The 35/39 will give you give you more top speed and pull on mid to top end.

PRO I know you know your stuff but I kind of disagree with this post. The 33/35 will spool the turbo faster and feel snappy. The 35/39 won’t feel as snappy but should accelerate faster when spooled, so I agree to there. But ultimate top speed should be better with the 33/35 provided the rpm’s are the same.
What I’m trying to say is the the 35/39 will get to top speed faster but the 33/35 should have a few more mph when it finally gets there. That’s my experience especially with roller secondarys.

 

[DMCTurbo]

PRO I know you know your stuff but I kind of disagree with this post. The 33/35 will spool the turbo faster and feel snappy. The 35/39 won’t feel as snappy but should accelerate faster when spooled, so I agree to there. But ultimate top speed should be better with the 33/35 provided the rpm’s are the same.
What I’m trying to say is the the 35/39 will get to top speed faster but the 33/35 should have a few more mph when it finally gets there. That’s my experience especially with roller secondarys.

That's what I'm accustomed to with non rollers...

 

[Blue Dave]

Yikes! My head is spinning. LOL! I think I will try just the springs and weights that TD sold to me for starters. Then I will wait to see what others with a similar set-up learn from their testing. And always, thanks everyone for your help!

 

[NOS-PRO]

PRO I know you know your stuff but I kind of disagree with this post. The 33/35 will spool the turbo faster and feel snappy. The 35/39 won’t feel as snappy but should accelerate faster when spooled, so I agree to there. But ultimate top speed should be better with the 33/35 provided the rpm’s are the same.
What I’m trying to say is the the 35/39 will get to top speed faster but the 33/35 should have a few more mph when it finally gets there. That’s my experience especially with roller secondarys.

We agree...
the 33/35 will spool faster
the 35/39 won't feel as snappy, but will shift faster

But given the same rpms....the 35/39 at top speed will be faster mph. The key is same rpm. Just throwing on the helix from a 33/35 to a 35/39 will drop your rpms because it's pulling down the engine more putting power to the track. It's adjusting the primary weights so you can pull the same rpm in which will give you more top end charge and more mph. I am basing this on a very long straight trail or flat out snow/ice covered lake....or in @shagman and my results, on asphalt. We saw more mph with the 35/39 than the 33/35. Of course snow conditions, spring tension and rpm will play factors here.

I am thinking a 33/37 helix would be a very good helix.

 

[**sj**]

another major factor is the drive spring pre load/engagement rpms and heel mass of the flyweight and then mass/ profile of the rest of it...its a balancing act between all the parts and THEN which power level (which tune) and the given power curve! then you add into the mix studs vs no studs or even the amount and size i.e. positive traction vs limited or no traction...

I find it interesting when a guys are talking setups and and only a couple details mentioned....leads to chasing your tails fast..

 

[ClutchMaster]

another major factor is the drive spring pre load/engagement rpms and heel mass of the flyweight and then mass/ profile of the rest of it...its a balancing act between all the parts and THEN which power level (which tune) and the given power curve! then you add into the mix studs vs no studs or even the amount and size i.e. positive traction vs limited or no traction...

I find it interesting when a guys are talking setups and and only a couple details mentioned....leads to chasing your tails fast..

No details needed, shallower angles have always work better 4 me. If you remember the old days back on the TY two stroke forums Turk or Srx Majic had tested some roller clutches. The conclusion was after 1:1 shift the clutches become very inefficient and belt tension drops off significantly. Best top speed was achieved with a 32 degree straight helix and heavy secondary spring. So I started testing the theory also and found I could get 5~6 mph more on a shallow helix and stiff spring. I had my SRX over 120 on Radar bone stock motor, killing ZRT 800’s on a wide open lake only clutching. Yea they accelerated faster but with some room I always reeled them in. Even button clutches gain a bit below 40 degrees. I believe I was running a 42/32 helix on a Haulk roller silver secondary spring.

Maybe this heavy orange secondary spring from TP is doing the trick and keeping the belt tighter?? Just my experience with helix angles is all I’m trying to convey.

 

[NOS-PRO]

No details needed, shallower angles have always work better 4 me. If you remember the old days back on the TY two stroke forums Turk or Srx Majic had tested some roller clutches. The conclusion was after 1:1 shift the clutches become very inefficient and belt tension drops off significantly. Best top speed was achieved with a 32 degree straight helix and heavy secondary spring. So I started testing the theory also and found I could get 5~6 mph more on a shallow helix and stiff spring. I had my SRX over 120 on Radar bone stock motor, killing ZRT 800’s on a wide open lake only clutching. Yea they accelerated faster but with some room I always reeled them in. Even button clutches gain a bit below 40 degrees. I believe I was running a 42/32 helix on a Haulk roller silver secondary spring.

Maybe this heavy orange secondary spring from TP is doing the trick and keeping the belt tighter?? Just my experience with helix angles is all I’m trying to convey.

I miss my ol' buddy Turk....we used to go round and round about clutching in PM's and on the phone. Turk was at the Manitoba ride when I met him in person. On the coldest day of the ride, Turk would pull his clutches off and work on them right on the hotel's breakfast table. And he had enough clutching with him to do anything he wanted.

Turk and I raced that day on the lake and I remember him saying...."Can't believe you walked me that bad! I guess these 4 strokes are clutched way different than 2 strokes". Turk and I both learned from each other and shared clutching specs.

The orange spring works. Does it keep the belt tighter? It does, but not to the point where it grabs the belt so hard that it won't shift out. @shagman and myself knew that we needed a slightly stiffer twisting and little more compression spring than the stock one ....along with smaller wire diameter to eliminate the coil bind. We came to that conclusion from testing on snow to testing on asphalt and could relay the info to the spring maker.

No worries man....we are all trying to get our sleds to work better and be more enjoyable. Just trying to help where I can and give everyone our results from testing.

 

[NOS-PRO]

another major factor is the drive spring pre load/engagement rpms and heel mass of the flyweight and then mass/ profile of the rest of it...its a balancing act between all the parts and THEN which power level (which tune) and the given power curve! then you add into the mix studs vs no studs or even the amount and size i.e. positive traction vs limited or no traction...

I find it interesting when a guys are talking setups and and only a couple details mentioned....leads to chasing your tails fast..

Trust me...trying to balance out everything to work right, have low/smooth engagement, pull like a freight train, have excellent backshift, great fuel mileage and top speed that everyone will like.....equals many sleepless nights.

And everyone is different like studs/no studs, flashed/not flashed, short track or long track, different brand of clutching....etc. It's just crazy

 

[XP123]

Trust me...trying to balance out everything to work right, have low/smooth engagement, pull like a freight train, have excellent backshift, great fuel mileage and top speed that everyone will like.....equals many sleepless nights.

And everyone is different like studs/no studs, flashed/not flashed, short track or long track, different brand of clutching....etc. It's just crazy

I ordered and installed the big venom kit along with the 33/35 helix and orange secondary spring based on you and Shagmans reports. Thank you for all your hard work. I'm sure I will be very pleased with the results.

 

[actionjack]

Have TD clutch kit with Dalton weights on order along with stock exhaust tune. What do the experts think of 32/38? Thinking of the 32 due 1.6 track.

Thanks for replies
Jack