Blown Belt

[jonlafon1]

8DN is harder compound

Okay thanks!

 

[journeyman]

Sounds like some progress is happening which is good. My question is where is Yamaha in all this? You can't tell me they haven't heard about the belt breaking/blowing issue. Do we now leave it all up to the speed shops?

Another thing I find ironic.... In the beginning when everyone finally saw the preview of these machines the question was.....do I get the T-Cat or do I get the Sidewinder? I saw countless people say the SW because of Yamaha's quality of their clutches. Too many Cat's with belt blowing issues.

Talk about a slap in the face!

Well my curiosity got to me so I just looked around on other forums to see if there were any issues with the T-Cat Team clutches. First I went to Arctic Chat, hardly anyone talking about this sled over there. Then I went to HCS under the Cat/Turbo section. There is a thread there slamming the quality of the Team clutches. Not so much about blowing belts but the overall quality, casting imperfections and quick wear on them. There are a few saying they are spending the extra $$ to retrofit the STM clutches to them.

 

[KnappAttack]

If you see paint missing on the coils where they would touch when compressed, you are coil binding. Even if it is on 1 side area of the spring (in this case over the tangs, but in each coil). The coils shouldn't be touching at all, but I know springs twist funky and can show some wear areas....this should not be classified as a coil bind, but that's where you need to inspect all the coils to see if you are.



You are not seeing coil bind because you are running a longer belt which is fine when you are 3-3 and starting to see it at 6-1.



Coil bind is happening! Belts are breaking! I have been machining clutches for years now and Yamaha has definitely been a problem child....especially with the Vipers and now SW's. But, as Shagman has mentioned....He, myself and a few others have devoted our time to helping eliminate these issues.

The Viper had coil bind very badly and along with other issues that made the clutch not want to work. Casting flash was also a huge issue....but that is a deburring/casting problem , not engineering.

Yamaha factory engineers are not stupid?
Who would put a secondary together and not allow enough room for the spring dimension?
Who thought that putting a CAT ECU with a good running Yamaha 3 cylinder that used a Mitsubishi ECU (Nytro) previously would be a better option? Why did the race teams use the Nytro gauge and ECU, but the Viper was sold with the Cat ECU and gauge?
Who ever thought that the oil filter on a Phazer would be a good place for it?

I work at a machine shop and being a Quality Manager.... doesn't matter how many years someone has under their belt. You can have a business that has been successful for 87 years and still have an engineer come in the door with less than 3 years experience and change the whole way of machining a part that not only saves time.... but is also more cost effective. Why? Because people get lazy and don't like change. There is always a way for improvement. So lets all work together to get these issues resolved.....because if we wait for Yamaha to address the issue, (being sarcastic about the Yamaha flash issues and starter problems), another new model will be out.[/QUOTE


Coil bind happens when ALL coils touch each other and literally bind. Not a couple coils!

Belts are breaking because of other issues. Not because of cool bind. When someone posts up a pic of all the coils with paint worn off, then you can say you have coil bind.

Just because it binds on press, or you don't measure enough spring pocket does not mean the drive clutch shifts it that far with the recommend belt.

Let's see the spring that are coil binding in actual field use. I have some I've use that show it, but their from a cat. There is tell tale ways to see it with paint gone from both sides of all the coils. The paint on the spring does not lie!

Lots of misinformation thru out this whole post!

 

[jonlafon1]

I have tested the 8jp as well and did not have any coil bind issues. Top speed was 3mph higher than 8dn

This is interesting to me> Not questioning what your saying, seems to be the 8dn is a touch slower on top.. To me its WHY is that the case. I believe its the 8dn slipping more then length that makes it slower. Not trying to beat a dead horse comparing these belts, but I was mistaking the 8dn to be softer. And its the one thing that I have done different them most on this thread.. I have been running the 8dn with a lot of dust and slip.

 

[shagman]

Yep. Most of it coming from someone like you who has probably not even laid his hands on a set of the new clutches. Going of a few pics you have seen. If you don't have one of these sleds and don't want to contribute any experience form these clutches and sled. Please butt out. Your not helping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DC5]

This is interesting to me> Not questioning what your saying, seems to be the 8dn is a touch slower on top.. To me its WHY is that the case. I believe its the 8dn slipping more then length that makes it slower. Not trying to beat a dead horse comparing these belts, but I was mistaking the 8dn to be softer. And its the one thing that I have done different them most on this thread.. I have been running the 8dn with a lot of dust and slip.

The 8DN is a longer belt so you lose some overdrive. I was using a TD GPS gauge/timer and the 2 belts are within 1mph of eachother at 330',500',660',1320'. It isn't until after 1320' where the 8jp picks up the extra 3mph. Both belts seem to run the same RPM as well.

 

[DC5]

If you are getting lots a belt dust and slip with the 8dn then you have a clutching issue.

 

[jonlafon1]

Thanks DC5 . interesting they both ran same RPM.

 

[dsimonRX1]

Well my curiosity got to me so I just looked around on other forums to see if there were any issues with the T-Cat Team clutches. First I went to Arctic Chat, hardly anyone talking about this sled over there. Then I went to HCS under the Cat/Turbo section. There is a thread there slamming the quality of the Team clutches. Not so much about blowing belts but the overall quality, casting imperfections and quick wear on them. There are a few saying they are spending the extra $$ to retrofit the STM clutches to them.

I was talking to a Thundercat owner on Sunday and he blew a belt getting it on/off the trailer with less than 15 miles. He has been good since.

 

[Jafo1970]

I have a 38 helix arriving tomorrow and will be running it Friday and Saturday hopefully. I'm guessing it should pull my top rpms down maybe 200rpms. Which would be good. I'm running 9200 now.

 

[journeyman]

Yep. Most of it coming from someone like you who has probably not even laid his hands on a set of the new clutches. Going of a few pics you have seen. If you don't have one of these sleds and don't want to contribute any experience form these clutches and sled. Please butt out. Your not helping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure if this is aimed at DC5, Knappattack or myself but I don't think anyone has been out of line here. How do you know some of us are not highly interested in getting a Sidewinder but are just staying in tune with the issues ? Not trying to start an argument, just saying........let's be nice. PEACE!!

 

[shagman]

Not sure if this is aimed at DC5, Knappattack or myself but I don't think anyone has been out of line here. How do you know some of us are not highly interested in getting a Sidewinder but are just staying in tune with the issues ? Not trying to start an argument, just saying........let's be nice. PEACE!!

It was a reply to knapp. From his post. Some reason the quote didn't come through. Sorry if that wasn't nice, but was not aimed you or dc5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[journeyman]

It was a reply to knapp. From his post. Some reason the quote didn't come through. Sorry if that wasn't nice, but was not aimed you or dc5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I actually know Mike, in fact I have been to his place once. He's a good guy and has lots of knowledge. I know he isn't riding blue at the moment but I think he seriously is watching to see how the SW performs. I'd love to see him back on a Yamaha Sidewinder. He would be a good addition, he does know how to make his sleds fast. In fact it's his setup of choice I run in my Attak for clutching and it REALLY woke that thing up.

So IMHO I don't think he is trying to cause any trouble here. We have had limited snow around our area so a lot of us are wanting to hear the latest reports on this new beast. We did get a few inches of the white stuff the last couple days!

Sorry for veering off track.....I'm done.

 

[cannondale27]

I am not saying anything about belt length but I am saying the harder compound of the 8dn will wear many sheaves. Depending on how you ride and maybe even the hardness of the sheaves themselves. It's never a groove. It's depression. Straightedge tells the story. Simple solution is use aftermarket 8dn replacement of your choice but then cost vs 8jp is shot right out the window.

 

[cannondale27]

All this arguing over spring bind STILL comes down to gearing to me. I have no doubt if it's close Shagman's BTX which is WAY under geared and was never intended to go much over 90 is binding. Others with higher geared TRAIL models might with tune or perfect conditions. It's not a big deal to regear and surely not worth arguing over.