Dalton Black/Orange secondary spring

[MDGFLHR]

Just got my dalton black orange spring and gonna try it in a 33/35 helix and the stock 35 helix. Those who have used or tried this spring what is the recommended twist rate? I know the orange secondary spring from Thunder Products was originally suggested to wrap at 60 then 50 and now even lower. Just don't wanna start off with a belt blower like my previous setup with the orange spring at 60. Also those running the dalton orange what are your findings? Wanna hear the good and bad. Thanks headed to the County in 2 weeks for some big mile riding. Can't wait. Ride safe and let it snow

 

[Soupy]

6-1 recommended setting

 

[actionjack]

6-1. 650 miles stock, 550 miles TD clutching with EcoTrail. Still running original belt. DTYA-1 EMPTY, stock helix. TD secondary rollers. 1.6 Ice Cobra

This setup worked surprisingly similar to the stock clutching with a little higher engagement. My sled stock would only get to about 8600 RPM even with 6-1 twist. Same thing with the TD clutching on factory tune.

Finally this past weekend with Ecotrail I can pull over 8800 RPM.

 

[DennyTuna]

Correct 6-1 is the recommended twist. I have 900 miles on with the stock helix and the twist set at 3-3. It performed flawless this way but, I just changed the twist to 6-1 as recommended. I'm headed to the UP this Saturday for few days, no harm in trying it at 6-1. The worst that can happen is I go back to 3-3.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

yes 6/1 as others said....

and most importantly Dalton says this is closest to stock setup(3/3 on stock spring)

Not a fan of reverse angle helix but the OP did not mention tune or stock hp?

I think the straight 35 can work fine overall....and i like my 39/35 with the quick spool tunes.

Dan

 

[MDGFLHR]

I'm running the TD powertrail flash and SQ muffler with CAI. I'm running Ulmers clutching the STMs in the primary. I do like the quicker spool up with that helix but didn't care much for the orange TP spring. I also have the stage 2 part of Allens on the way. Once it arrives I'm gonna do some testing on my local pond since we are finally getting snow locally and compare the 2 setups. Then I'll go from there. I've spent enough money this year but I may try Dalton weights next year. I've never used them so I'd definitely have a little bit of a learning curve with them. I messed with drag n flies in my Apex but always ended up back with Ulmers clutching for all around riding. I'm surprised I haven't really heard anyone using Heelclicker weights in the Sidewinder.

 

[snowbeast]

I'm running the TD powertrail flash and SQ muffler with CAI. I'm running Ulmers clutching the STMs in the primary. I do like the quicker spool up with that helix but didn't care much for the orange TP spring. I also have the stage 2 part of Allens on the way. Once it arrives I'm gonna do some testing on my local pond since we are finally getting snow locally and compare the 2 setups. Then I'll go from there. I've spent enough money this year but I may try Dalton weights next year. I've never used them so I'd definitely have a little bit of a learning curve with them. I messed with drag n flies in my Apex but always ended up back with Ulmers clutching for all around riding. I'm surprised I haven't really heard anyone using Heelclicker weights in the Sidewinder.

Some guys up in Canada are running them,i have an EVO tune and allens stage 2 but have yet to get any great top end numbers,117 best so far on perry pond in benedicta,but it was choppy ice/snow from our jan. melt down,that was also running very low rpms,8000 target is 8900-9150 so not sure what it may have ran if the target rpms were reached on that day. Come to patten and we can ride togeather and compare tunes and sleds.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Powertrail I had was not quick spool and poochy last season. Not sure which version you have?

I dont like that combo you are running at all, mine is sitting on shelf.

Dan

 

[helix]

We have actually started to hear that a lot are using it fine at 3-3.

originally it seems most tuned ones were using 6-1 and that may be the case for some. Recently I've been hearing that people have been using 3-3 as a starting point and tuned the weights to it and like it.

6-1 on this spring is similar torsion to stock spring set at 3-3...but since the black /orange has more compression pressure that it may be that less torsion is needed.

always worth a shot to try it it 3-3 to see if it suits you first. No sense to run more pressure than necessary.
I guess, as always, there can be a lot of variables. Adjustable weights can allow that test in a few minutes so worth a shot really.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

We have actually started to hear that a lot are using it fine at 3-3.

originally it seems most tuned ones were using 6-1 and that may be the case for some. Recently I've been hearing that people have been using 3-3 as a starting point and tuned the weights to it and like it.

6-1 on this spring is similar torsion to stock spring set at 3-3...but since the black /orange has more compression pressure that it may be that less torsion is needed.

always worth a shot to try it it 3-3 to see if it suits you first. No sense to run more pressure than necessary.
I guess, as always, there can be a lot of variables. Adjustable weights can allow that test in a few minutes so worth a shot really.

Agree Dale.....

I found the backshift in tight corner to corner was not enough at 3/3. But for top speed running I would certainly run 60 degrees and likely make a couple extra mph

 

[helix]

Agree Dale.....

I found the backshift in tight corner to corner was not enough at 3/3. But for top speed running I would certainly run 60 degrees and likely make a couple extra mph

yeah , probably so. However you are running taller than stock gearing and i think a quite powerful tune which requires quite a bit of weight in the primary. The combination of primary weight and the taller gearing may require that but maybe not for everyone. Thats why I mentioned that others seem to like it on 3-3. Sometimes the whole situation could be different if a bit of gearing or hp, etc was different.

 

[WinterWolf]

JoeLTX switched his Dalton Black/Orange spring with 33/35 Helix From 3-3, to 6-1 on a stock tune Winder, with a stock primary and stock gearing, and gained More RPM’s and more top end, than with it at 3-3.

I had mine at 3-3 too..ran very well, but I’m trying mine at 6-1 this weekend with the same set up as Joe has...wanna see if I get the same results he did, being we both have the same set up. Hope so???

 

[MDGFLHR]

Running at 6-1 vs 3-3 the rpms will be a tad higher correct? Still learning about clutching and like to gain as much knowledge as possible thanks. And RockerDan I'm not sure if there are any differences in the powertrail flash from this year had it flashed beginning of January versus last year's. I do wish the powertrail flash but a little lower in the rpms but other than that I'm very happy. And like I said I'll probably try a set of Dalton weights next year.

 

[MDGFLHR]

Some guys up in Canada are running them,i have an EVO tune and allens stage 2 but have yet to get any great top end numbers,117 best so far on perry pond in benedicta,but it was choppy ice/snow from our jan. melt down,that was also running very low rpms,8000 target is 8900-9150 so not sure what it may have ran if the target rpms were reached on that day. Come to patten and we can ride togeather and compare tunes and sleds.

I'll be staying in Sinclair Feb 21st thru 24th with my son. He rides my old sled a well running 2011 Apex SE maybe we can meet up for a ride. I've never been to the trains so we may try and do that one day unsure what the distance is from Sinclair. Let me know if your gonna be around that week.

 

[WinterWolf]

Running at 6-1 vs 3-3 the rpms will be a tad higher correct? Still learning about clutching and like to gain as much knowledge as possible thanks. And RockerDan I'm not sure if there are any differences in the powertrail flash from this year had it flashed beginning of January versus last year's. I do wish the powertrail flash but a little lower in the rpms but other than that I'm very happy. And like I said I'll probably try a set of Dalton weights next year.

According to JoeLTX-le, he saw more R’s and more top end MPH on his stock Winder with the Black/Orange Dalton Secondary spring wrapped at 6-1, vs 3-3. He said he’s keeping it at 6-1 cuz he like the performance much better than at 3-3. Him and I have the same clutch set up in both clutches and we are both stock.