ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 7,503
- Location
- Huntsville Ontario & Niagara NY
- Country
- Other
- Snowmobile
- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
I've received PM's about installing new DONUTS and felt this might be a good time for a step by step in detail to have for anyone here wanting to do the job.
TOOLS:
be sure to have a #3 philips(i use a #3 philips socket)as you can easily destroy the large philips black screws if you try to use a normal size screwdriver...also a 3/8'' SWIVEL will HELP to remove the FLEXPIPES from head.
This is the order i would go in for this job for someone new to the apex sleds...Ill try to go into as much detail as I can....
EDITn page 2 of this thread is a ton more pics of installing the donuts and reassembling the sled step by step in detail.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEARDOWN
1- remove main hood & sidepanels as usual,set aside.
2- remove chrome trim around handlebar BASE of riser(#3 philips)
3- remove top panel around handlebar riser by undoing four 5mm allen head bolts,turn them one turn counter clockwise to release.also you must remove the igntion key PLASTIC NUT,and just drop the ignition down thru,no need to disconnect wires....pull panel back to unclip from headlight pod and remove off to left side of sled,leaving the AC cigarette lighter wires connected,set off to left side hanging by those wires.
4- now unbolt two bolts of headlight pod,one on each side using a 10mm socket and extension...once these two 10mm bolts are removed you can slide entire headlight pod forward off the two METAL TABS,now you must UNPLUG the TWO WIRE PLUGINS to remove POD entirely from sled,set pod aside carefully.
5- now remove two side shrouds,which are located above each footwell....you will remove three #3 philips screws from both left and right shrouds....remove them and set aside...under the right side shroud is the tailight WIRES,UNPLUG this connection at this time.
6- now you will want to drain tank down...syphon fuel out if you have more then a couple gallons in it,as it may leak....once drained down,remove the large rubber GROMMET around the tank FILLER CAP and set aside....
7- Removal of UPPER TANK PANEL...now you can remove all of the #3 black head screws that hold down the UPPER TANK PANEL(i believe there are four)....and remove upper tank panel from sled and set aside....also reinstall gas cap at this time.
8- NOW remove tailpipe END CAPS be removing two 5mm bolts from each CAP(dont need to remove all 3 as one is a DUMMY)...set caps aside....
9- now remove the tailight shroud by removing two #3 philips screws just below tailight,then unclip each side from tailpipe painted shrouds and pivot entire shroud back and down separating it from the BUMPER shroud....you DO NOT NEED to remove tailpipe painted shrouds OR Bumper shrouds..those can stay on sled.
10- now unbolt the two nuts you see near tailight,that hold seat into main muffler...the nuts are connected to TWO long hook bolts,that connect to seat...remove these nuts allowing seat to slide back and off sled.set seat aside carefully,as it can easily RIP or TEAR material if set down wrong.
11- now you need to remove the fuel lines and wires from rear of fuel tank....start with the rear LINE and wire.....at rear of fuel tank you will see a large black foam peice,just remove and set aside(take note of how it sits before removal)
12- remove the black clip completely from line,set aside....and then you need to unclip the fuel line RED clip,this is a red plastic clip that you must slide outward,this allows the entire LINE to slide off the white plastic nipple....then unplug the elec WIRE PLUGIN also at rear of tank....set the wires and line off to left side of sled out of way.
13- now unbolt two NUTS/washers at rear of tank,that hold the tank to tunnel...now slide the entire tank backwards out from under frame,you also need to pull off the clear BREATHER TUBE near top front of tank....pull back just abit on tank,as you now need to unplug one more elec plugin near fron left side of tank.....and now you also need to remove one more FUEL RETURN LINE,which goes from front right side of tank to FUEL RAIL on motor...Disconnect this fuel return line FROM FUEL RAIL(not tank)...its easier this way....now tank should be free from sled,remove tank and set aside.
14- now remove 4 bolts that hold silver aluminum heat shield on,which are now in plain site.....careful not to drop bolts down into bellypan,remove the heat shield entirely from sled.set aside.
15- now you want to remove 4 rubber grommets from tunnel...two are round and two are oval in shape,pop all 4 out of tunnel.....the two closest to the motor are allen bolts that bolt the Y pipes to tunnel,and loosening these will allow entire Y pipes to slide back(loosen them off now).....the other two further back on tunnel are where the clamps hold the Y pipes to remaining section of exhaust...you also need to loosen these off to allow the sliding rearward of Y pipes....
16- now undo the 4 clamps that connect flexpipes to Y pipes....some have said that they have seen these swiveled downward,so you might need to use a large channel lock to swivel them around to get a allen wrench socket on them....undo them and remove from sled.
17- now you need to slide the Y pipes back away from the Flexpipes...sometimes abit tricky to do...you need some room here to remove the flexpipes easily.
18- now with enough room ,you can remove the 8 bolts that hold flexpipes to motor head....remove these using a swivel socket if you have one,otherwise tough to get the angle right(these go back on with 16lbs of torque later)....some have removed the donuts without removing flexpipes from motor,however its very tricky to do and you can very easily damage the new donuts installing them this way..so for the 2 minutes it took me to remove all four pipes from head i feel this is best...and you can re use the copper flexpipes gasket with no issues.
19- once all 4 flexpipes are removed,you can truly inspect the Y pipe flanges with a mirror and light for cracks..also inspect flexpipes to any cracks too....you can remove the spent donuts now and replace....I will be using a light bead/layer of ultra copper Hi temp silicone on each side of the donut,where it seats into Y and FLEX pipes,IMO this MAY help to reduce WEAR on these donuts....I do not FEEL it is smart to grind down the clamps to get them tighter,as IMO i think this MAY lead to clamps grinding into the expensive Y pipes....but you can use your own judgment here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that should cover it all....obviously you should be able to reverse the order above to put sled back together...I know it sounds like alot when you read this,but I have gone into much detail here to help with simple items...
EDITn page 2 of this thread is a ton more pics of installing the donuts and reassembling the sled step by step in detail.
I wanted to write this up so ANYONE with little APEX/ATTACK knowledge would be able to do this job easily......I feel now with more of us getting miles on these models,we are all seeing the DONUT WEAR issue...and some are seeing cracked Y pipes...so this may help us TYers all save some cash and learn alot about how nicely these sleds are put together and can be torn down in litterally minutes once done a few times.
Dan
TOOLS:
be sure to have a #3 philips(i use a #3 philips socket)as you can easily destroy the large philips black screws if you try to use a normal size screwdriver...also a 3/8'' SWIVEL will HELP to remove the FLEXPIPES from head.
This is the order i would go in for this job for someone new to the apex sleds...Ill try to go into as much detail as I can....
EDITn page 2 of this thread is a ton more pics of installing the donuts and reassembling the sled step by step in detail.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEARDOWN
1- remove main hood & sidepanels as usual,set aside.
2- remove chrome trim around handlebar BASE of riser(#3 philips)
3- remove top panel around handlebar riser by undoing four 5mm allen head bolts,turn them one turn counter clockwise to release.also you must remove the igntion key PLASTIC NUT,and just drop the ignition down thru,no need to disconnect wires....pull panel back to unclip from headlight pod and remove off to left side of sled,leaving the AC cigarette lighter wires connected,set off to left side hanging by those wires.
4- now unbolt two bolts of headlight pod,one on each side using a 10mm socket and extension...once these two 10mm bolts are removed you can slide entire headlight pod forward off the two METAL TABS,now you must UNPLUG the TWO WIRE PLUGINS to remove POD entirely from sled,set pod aside carefully.
5- now remove two side shrouds,which are located above each footwell....you will remove three #3 philips screws from both left and right shrouds....remove them and set aside...under the right side shroud is the tailight WIRES,UNPLUG this connection at this time.
6- now you will want to drain tank down...syphon fuel out if you have more then a couple gallons in it,as it may leak....once drained down,remove the large rubber GROMMET around the tank FILLER CAP and set aside....
7- Removal of UPPER TANK PANEL...now you can remove all of the #3 black head screws that hold down the UPPER TANK PANEL(i believe there are four)....and remove upper tank panel from sled and set aside....also reinstall gas cap at this time.
8- NOW remove tailpipe END CAPS be removing two 5mm bolts from each CAP(dont need to remove all 3 as one is a DUMMY)...set caps aside....
9- now remove the tailight shroud by removing two #3 philips screws just below tailight,then unclip each side from tailpipe painted shrouds and pivot entire shroud back and down separating it from the BUMPER shroud....you DO NOT NEED to remove tailpipe painted shrouds OR Bumper shrouds..those can stay on sled.
10- now unbolt the two nuts you see near tailight,that hold seat into main muffler...the nuts are connected to TWO long hook bolts,that connect to seat...remove these nuts allowing seat to slide back and off sled.set seat aside carefully,as it can easily RIP or TEAR material if set down wrong.
11- now you need to remove the fuel lines and wires from rear of fuel tank....start with the rear LINE and wire.....at rear of fuel tank you will see a large black foam peice,just remove and set aside(take note of how it sits before removal)
12- remove the black clip completely from line,set aside....and then you need to unclip the fuel line RED clip,this is a red plastic clip that you must slide outward,this allows the entire LINE to slide off the white plastic nipple....then unplug the elec WIRE PLUGIN also at rear of tank....set the wires and line off to left side of sled out of way.
13- now unbolt two NUTS/washers at rear of tank,that hold the tank to tunnel...now slide the entire tank backwards out from under frame,you also need to pull off the clear BREATHER TUBE near top front of tank....pull back just abit on tank,as you now need to unplug one more elec plugin near fron left side of tank.....and now you also need to remove one more FUEL RETURN LINE,which goes from front right side of tank to FUEL RAIL on motor...Disconnect this fuel return line FROM FUEL RAIL(not tank)...its easier this way....now tank should be free from sled,remove tank and set aside.
14- now remove 4 bolts that hold silver aluminum heat shield on,which are now in plain site.....careful not to drop bolts down into bellypan,remove the heat shield entirely from sled.set aside.
15- now you want to remove 4 rubber grommets from tunnel...two are round and two are oval in shape,pop all 4 out of tunnel.....the two closest to the motor are allen bolts that bolt the Y pipes to tunnel,and loosening these will allow entire Y pipes to slide back(loosen them off now).....the other two further back on tunnel are where the clamps hold the Y pipes to remaining section of exhaust...you also need to loosen these off to allow the sliding rearward of Y pipes....
16- now undo the 4 clamps that connect flexpipes to Y pipes....some have said that they have seen these swiveled downward,so you might need to use a large channel lock to swivel them around to get a allen wrench socket on them....undo them and remove from sled.
17- now you need to slide the Y pipes back away from the Flexpipes...sometimes abit tricky to do...you need some room here to remove the flexpipes easily.
18- now with enough room ,you can remove the 8 bolts that hold flexpipes to motor head....remove these using a swivel socket if you have one,otherwise tough to get the angle right(these go back on with 16lbs of torque later)....some have removed the donuts without removing flexpipes from motor,however its very tricky to do and you can very easily damage the new donuts installing them this way..so for the 2 minutes it took me to remove all four pipes from head i feel this is best...and you can re use the copper flexpipes gasket with no issues.
19- once all 4 flexpipes are removed,you can truly inspect the Y pipe flanges with a mirror and light for cracks..also inspect flexpipes to any cracks too....you can remove the spent donuts now and replace....I will be using a light bead/layer of ultra copper Hi temp silicone on each side of the donut,where it seats into Y and FLEX pipes,IMO this MAY help to reduce WEAR on these donuts....I do not FEEL it is smart to grind down the clamps to get them tighter,as IMO i think this MAY lead to clamps grinding into the expensive Y pipes....but you can use your own judgment here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that should cover it all....obviously you should be able to reverse the order above to put sled back together...I know it sounds like alot when you read this,but I have gone into much detail here to help with simple items...
EDITn page 2 of this thread is a ton more pics of installing the donuts and reassembling the sled step by step in detail.
I wanted to write this up so ANYONE with little APEX/ATTACK knowledge would be able to do this job easily......I feel now with more of us getting miles on these models,we are all seeing the DONUT WEAR issue...and some are seeing cracked Y pipes...so this may help us TYers all save some cash and learn alot about how nicely these sleds are put together and can be torn down in litterally minutes once done a few times.
Dan
Attachments
favarcat
Expert
Good write-up Dan. One thing that isn't necessary to loosen are the clamps at the rear of the y-pipes if just changing donuts. It will all still slide back. Of course it has to be loosened and taken apart here if you need to change a y-pipe.
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 7,503
- Location
- Huntsville Ontario & Niagara NY
- Country
- Other
- Snowmobile
- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
On mine it wouldnt budge without loosening the clamps on rear of Y pipes....
how else would the Y pipes slide back if you dont loosen them where they clamp to rear section?...i dont see how they could slide without these loose....
Dan
how else would the Y pipes slide back if you dont loosen them where they clamp to rear section?...i dont see how they could slide without these loose....
Dan
favarcat
Expert
The y-pipes do not slide in the rear section of the exhaust. That is very, very tight even with the clamp loosened. The whole exhaust ,from y-pipes to muffler,slides back when it is loosened at the rear muffler. Unless there is something different between the Attaks and short tracks. It isn't bolted to the tunnel here at all on the attaks.
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 7,503
- Location
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- Snowmobile
- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
Im not sure how you did yours...but the way i did mine,i did not touch any rear part of exhaust,so it CANNOT MOVE BACK...the ONLY WAY the Y pipes can slide backward,is if they slide INTO the rear section of exhaust,which is where clamps are.
so if you do not loosen these clamps,they cannot move backward....you may have done yours differently then I did in the above steps....i just know there is no way you can slide the entire system back,unless you either loosen the rear muffler so entire system moves,or just loosen the clamps like I did so Y pipes ONLY slide back.
look at the pic below and you will see exactly what I mean...no way Y pipes can slide back if you dont loosen those clamps where #5 is.... since the #2 rear section wont move
Dan
so if you do not loosen these clamps,they cannot move backward....you may have done yours differently then I did in the above steps....i just know there is no way you can slide the entire system back,unless you either loosen the rear muffler so entire system moves,or just loosen the clamps like I did so Y pipes ONLY slide back.
look at the pic below and you will see exactly what I mean...no way Y pipes can slide back if you dont loosen those clamps where #5 is.... since the #2 rear section wont move
Dan
Attachments
favarcat
Expert
Dan "no way Y pipes can slide back if you dont loosen those clamps where #5 is.... since the #2 rear section wont move
That is why I did this:
The whole exhaust ,from y-pipes to muffler,slides back when it is loosened at the rear muffler.
I loosened the rear of the exhaust at the muffler. There are gaskets at the rear y-pipe clamps, and they fit very tight on mine. I didn't want to ruin those gaskets, so I left it clamped there. That's the way I had to do it on ours.
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 7,503
- Location
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- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
Ahh...ok now that makes more sense....that is surely another option but alot more to take apart then in back end....either way is fine for sure.
Dan
Dan
favarcat
Expert
I guess it depends if the rear of your y-pipe will move into that rear muffler section with it loosened. Ours were too tight there.
SERPAGS
Expert
Well, I just got done doing mine step by step the " Danway" and it worked without a glitch.
Bill59
Newbie
Thanks so much Dan awesome wright up
How long should this take.
How long should this take.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
has anyone had this covered by the YES plan??
I noticed a bit of ticking on my sled today when it was cold,, after it warmed up it went away..
I noticed a bit of ticking on my sled today when it was cold,, after it warmed up it went away..
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
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- 7,503
- Location
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- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
Bill59 said:Thanks so much Dan awesome wright up
How long should this take.
for the first time,if your handy enough probably 1.5hrs or so to tear down......but for non mechanical people it could be 2 or 3 hrs even.
I have all the proper tools and power which can really speed things up.....also i did this before last summer and had entire motor out....so this time it went fast,about 20-25 minutes....but Im a freak with the wrenches at times..lol.
Dan
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 7,503
- Location
- Huntsville Ontario & Niagara NY
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- Snowmobile
- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
welterracer said:has anyone had this covered by the YES plan??
I noticed a bit of ticking on my sled today when it was cold,, after it warmed up it went away..
I get the feeling this WOULD NOT be covered(donuts).....a broken Y pipe SHOULD IMO be covered though.
I think the problem with the worn donuts is they are hard to know for sure how worn they are....Mine just made some slightly louder sounds at certain times,and honestly i just tore it down cause i had some downtime and also KNEW they werent in very good shape when i put the motor back in last summer....i should have done it then.
I only have about 3500 miles or so on mine,and those miles are not overly hard on really rough stuff....some are pretty hard miles but not as hard as many probably here...as we have nice groomed trails most times here.
Id think the combonation of rough riding and motor torquing would wear these down faster...but my guess is that ANYONE with over 3000 miles on their apex/attack would probably need to replace these,or else they will simply wear out and disinigrate like others have shown.
this IMO would be a great SUMMER job to do,as you can take your time and wrench in the warm temps...
Dan
SERPAGS
Expert
I have a 7 day trip expecting to rack up about 2000 miles, I took the time for a full tune up, oil change, bearing check ...etc, and figured, what the hell, for 40- bucks and an extra hour, I checked the donuts and they were ok but getting tired, so voila !! Out they came, and now, the busted studs are replaced, new hyfax, new carbides and all the grease you can imagine was replaced and NOW I am ready to go. I would freak out if half way threw my trip I start hearing backfire and exhaust leaks...I would loose it . I say take a few hours and a couple of buds and change them ! I have had too many trips spoiled in the past with my doo, not gonna happen for lack of maintenance on the Yammie.
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 7,503
- Location
- Huntsville Ontario & Niagara NY
- Country
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- Snowmobile
- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
I totally agree....I like to get my sled all set in the fall usually....but I am lucky and stay at my winter place here all winter,have the shop here heated to work on her and ride right outa my door onto lake...so if I break down im here already.....
if I was going on any distance trips I would definitely do all the work prior....this sport is so tough with short winters,mild weather,global warming and all....its best to be positive to have your sled running peak at all times....i guess thats why im always keeping mine like new condition....every sled ive owned,even with 10000+ miles have looked like new and rode like new...really pays off in the end with a smile.
and really this is not that bad a job....not at all.
dan
if I was going on any distance trips I would definitely do all the work prior....this sport is so tough with short winters,mild weather,global warming and all....its best to be positive to have your sled running peak at all times....i guess thats why im always keeping mine like new condition....every sled ive owned,even with 10000+ miles have looked like new and rode like new...really pays off in the end with a smile.
and really this is not that bad a job....not at all.
dan
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