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Helix,,, Stock vs ???? on fast spooling tunes

Lusemeat924

Lusemeat924

Extreme
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
86
Location
Drumbo, Ontario
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
2018 Yamaha Sidewinder 137 XTX SE
Hey guys, I have been reading a lot through this forum and gathering bits and pcs of info regarding helix angles, both progressive and reverse. It seems most guys are going back to the straight 35 stock helix.
With sleds and different setups getting more miles put on,,,, Is there a better helix then stock out there for the fast spool tunes?
 

Lusemeat924 said:
Hey guys, I have been reading a lot through this forum and gathering bits and pcs of info regarding helix angles, both progressive and reverse. It seems most guys are going back to the straight 35 stock helix.
With sleds and different setups getting more miles put on,,,, Is there a better helix then stock out there for the fast spool tunes?
Click to expand...
I'm beginning to think we are changing things too quickly on these sleds and then regretting it. Sometimes stock is a really good thing.
 
I think I’ve read every Sidewinder post on here and I’m surprised by the amount of guys that changed clutching before ever driving their sled.
Not that I think that’s a bad thing, I just like to get a good feel for my sled before changing things and running it side by side with my buddy’s sleds so I have a good real world meter to compare to, especially when changing clutching,
I’ve been surprised a few times changing clutching and by seat of your pants feel you think it is better, then you run against your buddy’s sled and you actually lost performance.

Just my thoughts and I love this site.
 
budman 1000 said:
I think I’ve read every Sidewinder post on here and I’m surprised by the amount of guys that changed clutching before ever driving their sled.
Not that I think that’s a bad thing, I just like to get a good feel for my sled before changing things and running it side by side with my buddy’s sleds so I have a good real world meter to compare to, especially when changing clutching,
I’ve been surprised a few times changing clutching and by seat of your pants feel you think it is better, then you run against your buddy’s sled and you actually lost performance.

Just my thoughts and I love this site.
Click to expand...

I agree totally!
 
I am still stock and only 400 miles. Still making hp. Going on a trip so I think after two days of riding I am going to make a helix and spring change so I should have a real feel for the change and decide if it is a good or bad change.
 
budman 1000 said:
I think I’ve read every Sidewinder post on here and I’m surprised by the amount of guys that changed clutching before ever driving their sled.
Not that I think that’s a bad thing, I just like to get a good feel for my sled before changing things and running it side by side with my buddy’s sleds so I have a good real world meter to compare to, especially when changing clutching,
I’ve been surprised a few times changing clutching and by seat of your pants feel you think it is better, then you run against your buddy’s sled and you actually lost performance.

Just my thoughts and I love this site.
Click to expand...
I put 350 miles on my Sidewinder then fell for the change all clutching deal. just rode this past weekend 275 miles and got out on the lake for several hard runs. TP big Venom clutch kit weights to Lonn spec, orange primary with glide washers, weights were 63.1, 63.2, 63.2?? stock were all 71.2. 33/35 TP helix orange spring at 2/3. XTX 141 1.6 track,JP belt, 30 degrees F, packed down snow about 1 inch loose snow. rpm shoots to 8900 and settle at 8700. speedo showed 114, phone gps at 112. that was 1/2 mile to the handlebar. ride impression on trail, 4500 to 5500 low end felt same as stock, mid range to 7,000 may have been a bit stronger but not much, i may have been talking myself into it. top end seemed to pull harder stock. all in all, my clutches are a bit warm now, were cool when stock and i spent 600 bucks but i did also get a belt adjuster and new rollers. wish i could have run a stock winder to see if i gained anything in acceleration or speed.
 
I needed 3 belt for 1000 miles with stock clutching. I did a couple changes and i am still on the same belt 3000 miles later :). The weakest link of those clutches is definitely the primary roller in my opinion....

Now my sled is a lot more awake whit hurricane flasher, need some time to test again my Gforce 41/37 or maybe try 44/41
 
Lusemeat924 said:
Hey guys, I have been reading a lot through this forum and gathering bits and pcs of info regarding helix angles, both progressive and reverse. It seems most guys are going back to the straight 35 stock helix.
With sleds and different setups getting more miles put on,,,, Is there a better helix then stock out there for the fast spool tunes?
Click to expand...
Just to get back on track with your post, if your willing to wait I believe ROCKERDAN is going try a fast spooling flash with some different clutch setups, he does an awesome job at posting his setups and how they work
 
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Byam said:
I needed 3 belt for 1000 miles with stock clutching. I did a couple changes and i am still on the same belt 3000 miles later :). The weakest link of those clutches is definitely the primary roller in my opinion....

Now my sled is a lot more awake whit hurricane flasher, need some time to test again my Gforce 41/37 or maybe try 44/41
Click to expand...
Agree.....I think stock rollers in both primary and secondary seem the be the weak point. And while some may last and be fine, these are the components worth changing out for less worry over time. Also maybe the primary spring which is too long and mine was binding and grinding my spring cup at only 550 miles pretty badly.

The rest.....most guys clutch these cause we have a tune. You cant really leave your stock stuff in there when adding a bigger tune. I rode mine stock to break it in. And Im sure i could have gone another 1000 miles on that belt stock.

Guys blowing belts stock have one either bad rollers, or spring bind, or offset is wrong. Otherwise its the big tune HP that seems to bring on belts snapping.

As for helix, it does seem that KNAPP once again nailed it with his explanation.....Poochy tunes without hard hitting boost down lower in the RPM range are annoyingly laggy. I complained all last season about this and must have hit the nail on head as now this yr it seems the tunes are all early spool. And with that, now that whole theory I had of trying to make snap with quick revving helix, goes out the window.... Because a reverse helix with big HP early spool tune sure can be hard on a belt..lol

I went conservative with 39/35 and just waiting to test things later this week as the remaining parts arrive....But I can see myself going steeper even as things get dialed in, maybe upwards of 44 start, but I was thinking 42 to 43 or so start, to 36 or 37 finish. And definitely in conjunction with the Dalton B/O. More side pressure with similar torsional, its all right there in Dales notes.

Dan
 
Running a Cat but here is a theory I plan to test. I have flatter profile STM weights in now and they require quite a bit of mass. I am running the Hurricane Race tunes which spool faster. That being said, when not on boost this sled is a 135 HP NA motor. So with heavy weights required to hold this bad boy back when at 17 PSI it seems lazy to me down low, I have always said this sled does not hit as hard at engagement as the 1100 but once on boost it is better, that and the chassis is light years better than the 1100 with the mass placement.

I plan to try the reverse helix even thought I should not need it. Maybe I need to go to a more curved profile but the drag racer in me likes the pull these have. I also seem to have belt slip at the upper end, so a helix with more angle will only hurt, I may try a finish very close to stock with a bit more spring. Also, at 3/4 shift I will have a slightly lower angle and better belt grip.
 
Never Satisfied said:
Running a Cat but here is a theory I plan to test. I have flatter profile STM weights in now and they require quite a bit of mass. I am running the Hurricane Race tunes which spool faster. That being said, when not on boost this sled is a 135 HP NA motor. So with heavy weights required to hold this bad boy back when at 17 PSI it seems lazy to me down low, I have always said this sled does not hit as hard at engagement as the 1100 but once on boost it is better, that and the chassis is light years better than the 1100 with the mass placement.

I plan to try the reverse helix even thought I should not need it. Maybe I need to go to a more curved profile but the drag racer in me likes the pull these have. I also seem to have belt slip at the upper end, so a helix with more angle will only hurt, I may try a finish very close to stock with a bit more spring. Also, at 3/4 shift I will have a slightly lower angle and better belt grip.
Click to expand...
Hi never,My kit from ulmer from last year,was stm,s loaded 14 tip 2 in heel mid empty,with light blk/pink primary spring 30/90 seems to work good,EVO stage 4 tune sandale 3" muffler CAI thing is a monster once spooled up,like you stated,very lazy right off engagement,they do have a free update to spool quicker,i just wont do it till next summer,ok secondary,STM straight 38 with red/blk stripe spring,think it may be one of the cats older spring,funny thing is,i just got in Daltons orange/blk secondary spring,the tang placement,is same location,but wire on red is .204 wire on Dalton is .220,the red is 4 coil,dalton is 5 coil,same height,or length.And I like the 38 way better than stock 35,the 38 loads motor very quick,so my next angle is coming from STM its there 42/36 may just be the ticket,just not sure which spring I want to run with it,and wrap,any ideas,i have Dalton,o/blk,tpi orange,and either stm red/blk or its a cat version.
 
What track are you running? I have the 1.6 ice cobra which seems to through a wrench in the mix. Im after that down low instant spool fun that launches corner to corner.
 
Lusemeat924 said:
What track are you running? I have the 1.6 ice cobra which seems to through a wrench in the mix. Im after that down low instant spool fun that launches corner to corner.
Click to expand...

Same track I am running, I haven't been able to ride my sled at all this year so no testing as of yet. I will be running the Hurricane 270 race flash.
 
I've always been running the stock helix, advertised a stock helix in my setup. The Stock setup works pretty good with dalton weights. Only that rear spring is a touch too soft on the initial pressure.
My clutch kits were always simple... sometimes people think if we sell them more parts it's better. Trust me if more parts were better I'd be all over it. But I like to sell what I can prove works.
I have thousands in helixes at the shop but you will see none are for sale on my site. I have more testing to do, it's a never ending thing. But so far stock 35 with dalton black/orange spring works best along with Dalton front.
The primary spring is changed depending on desired engagement and response.
 
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