Hygear twisted springs

[1nc 2000]

The main springs are likely 1.88" ID springs (common). I don't know what length they are but that is easy to measure with them off the sled. If you pull one of the main springs, you should find a spot on one of the ends where there is no powder coat and they engraved the spring rate. Once you know that, you can buy heavier springs. The stock single-rate springs that come on the standard SE front shocks are 120-lb/in rate. The SRX springs are a 90/145-lb/in rate. You would not want your main springs to be any lighter rate than either of those.

If you can find a number on the upper, smaller spring as well, I can very easily calculate what your effective spring rate is.

You are correct on the stock springs inside diameter. They won't fit on the hygear setup.
Those look like 2" id springs.

 

[1nc 2000]

That's not fully correct.... only part of it. The effective spring rate that @1nc 2000 has is 109/150 lb/in which is just a little firmer than the stock SRX front springs. Remember, those are DUAL RATE springs from Hygear.

For comparison, the stock springs on the SE shocks are 120 lb/in rate. The SRX springs are 90/145 lb/in rate.

If you wanted a triple-rate setup with a little firmer final rate you could achieve the following:
300-lb top spring, 400-lb middle spring, 175-lb main spring= 87/109/175 lb/in rate
300-lb top spring, 500-lb middle spring, 175-lb main spring= 91/129/175 lb/in rate
400-lb top spring, 500-lb middle spring, 175-lb main spring= 98/129/175 ib/in rate

Where would I be able to get these?

 

[Sledroll]

What I don't understand is the SRX ski springs are really a single rate spring as the soft part is competely compressed on all SRX's .
You can't really lessen the preload , as the spring will hit the reservoir .
The soft rate on the stock SRX ski springs do nothing when riding , as it appears the Elka dual rate springs do .
Please explain if I am wrong .

 

[earthling]

What I don't understand is the SRX ski springs are really a single rate spring as the soft part is competely compressed on all SRX's .
You can't really lessen the preload , as the spring will hit the reservoir .
The soft rate on the stock SRX ski springs do nothing when riding , as it appears the Elka dual rate springs do .
Please explain if I am wrong .

The only way to get a lowered ride height while maintaining full shock working length (travel) is with a progressive spring setup. If you were to simply use a linear spring you would have to use one that is shorter (to get lowered height) and stiffer (to maintain sit-in or sag). This would give you a very harsh ride.

The SRX front spring is not a linear spring, it has several features which make it dual or multi-rate.

1. Coils are not all the same size diameter (diameter of coil, not wire which is the same), see picture below
2. Springs have to cover a working range, this includes both the sit in height and the extended (unloaded) height/length. As you extend the shock you expose more of the tender spring (tighter wrap, and smaller diameter). This gives you smooth operation over chatter bumps while keeping full shock travel.
3. Coil to Coil gap changes over the length of the spring. Any time you change the angle of the coil you change its rate. The only way to make the coil spacing (gap) uneven is to change the pitch of the coil (moving the coils closer together or further apart).

All of this works together very, very well.

In the below picture you can see that the coils are different diameters. Its a bit misleading as the two above my thumb and the one below my thumb are the same size and the rest get smaller. If you want to follow along and counting up from the bottom (judging by eye) the first three coils from the bottom are noticeably smaller, the fourth is slightly smaller, 5,6,7 are noticeably equal, and 8 and above get smaller again. The coil to coil spacing also changes near the other end of the spring (bottom) with the last few coils are closer together. When the shock opens up, the gap in the upper spring grows (all coils separate) making initial impact soft and then getting much stiffer. Those tighter coils are stiffer, the way to think about them is to straighten them out and think of them as a lever, there is less material in a tighter coil so harder to bend.

 

[Sledroll]

The only way to get a lowered ride height while maintaining full shock working length (travel) is with a progressive spring setup. If you were to simply use a linear spring you would have to use one that is shorter (to get lowered height) and stiffer (to maintain sit-in or sag). This would give you a very harsh ride.

The SRX front spring is not a linear spring, it has several features which make it dual or multi-rate.

1. Coils are not all the same size diameter (diameter of coil, not wire which is the same), see picture below
2. Springs have to cover a working range, this includes both the sit in height and the extended (unloaded) height/length. As you extend the shock you expose more of the tender spring (tighter wrap, and smaller diameter). This gives you smooth operation over chatter bumps while keeping full shock travel.
3. Coil to Coil gap changes over the length of the spring. Any time you change the angle of the coil you change its rate. The only way to make the coil spacing (gap) uneven is to change the pitch of the coil (moving the coils closer together or further apart).

All of this works together very, very well.

In the below picture you can see that the coils are different diameters. Its a bit misleading as the two above my thumb and the one below my thumb are the same size and the rest get smaller. If you want to follow along and counting up from the bottom (judging by eye) the first three coils from the bottom are noticeably smaller, the fourth is slightly smaller, 5,6,7 are noticeably equal, and 8 and above get smaller again. The coil to coil spacing also changes near the other end of the spring (bottom) with the last few coils are closer together. When the shock opens up, the gap in the upper spring grows (all coils separate) making initial impact soft and then getting much stiffer. Those tighter coils are stiffer, the way to think about them is to straighten them out and think of them as a lever, there is less material in a tighter coil so harder to bend.

View attachment 167372

So the top 4 coils are just designed to get the shock to a narrower coil so the spring doesn't hit the reservoir ?
why not just eliminate the top 3 coils ?

 

[twyztid]

Where would I be able to get these?

That would be a custom setup if you wanted to try to do a triple rate.

 

[twyztid]

What I don't understand is the SRX ski springs are really a single rate spring as the soft part is competely compressed on all SRX's .
You can't really lessen the preload , as the spring will hit the reservoir .
The soft rate on the stock SRX ski springs do nothing when riding , as it appears the Elka dual rate springs do .
Please explain if I am wrong .

When the ski drops out into holes, those tight coils will open up... unless you have too much preload.

 

[twyztid]

The only way to get a lowered ride height while maintaining full shock working length (travel) is with a progressive spring setup. If you were to simply use a linear spring you would have to use one that is shorter (to get lowered height) and stiffer (to maintain sit-in or sag). This would give you a very harsh ride.

The SRX front spring is not a linear spring, it has several features which make it dual or multi-rate.

1. Coils are not all the same size diameter (diameter of coil, not wire which is the same), see picture below
2. Springs have to cover a working range, this includes both the sit in height and the extended (unloaded) height/length. As you extend the shock you expose more of the tender spring (tighter wrap, and smaller diameter). This gives you smooth operation over chatter bumps while keeping full shock travel.
3. Coil to Coil gap changes over the length of the spring. Any time you change the angle of the coil you change its rate. The only way to make the coil spacing (gap) uneven is to change the pitch of the coil (moving the coils closer together or further apart).

All of this works together very, very well.

In the below picture you can see that the coils are different diameters. Its a bit misleading as the two above my thumb and the one below my thumb are the same size and the rest get smaller. If you want to follow along and counting up from the bottom (judging by eye) the first three coils from the bottom are noticeably smaller, the fourth is slightly smaller, 5,6,7 are noticeably equal, and 8 and above get smaller again. The coil to coil spacing also changes near the other end of the spring (bottom) with the last few coils are closer together. When the shock opens up, the gap in the upper spring grows (all coils separate) making initial impact soft and then getting much stiffer. Those tighter coils are stiffer, the way to think about them is to straighten them out and think of them as a lever, there is less material in a tighter coil so harder to bend.

View attachment 167372

The tighter coils are the softer rate. The coils that are spread apart further are the firmer, final rate.

 

[earthling]

So the top 4 coils are just designed to get the shock to a narrower coil so the spring doesn't hit the reservoir ?
why not just eliminate the top 3 coils ?

Don't think of the top 4 coils as a compromise just so they don't hit the reservoir, they aren't, or rather they are but probably because the rest of the coils are bigger (diameter) than a normal linear spring. I haven't looked at a normal sidewinder linear spring to compare them but my guess is that the linear spring coils all miss the reservoir and they are uniform in diameter.

A dual rate spring typically is designed like they are on the SRX for a few reasons.

1. Keep pressure on the retainers in the shocks. This allows the shock to reach full extension as the suspension extends. (the sled unweights as you go over a bump or jump).
2. Once the spring starts to compress it acts like a dual rate spring where the spring rate is a combination of the rate for the looser coils and the spring rate of the tighter coils. The result is that the effective spring rate is lower and the spring acts softer. As the spring compresses that top section the spring becomes a linear spring.
3. The fact that the top part compresses means that you can have a lower ride height without the typical problems you have with a linear spring.
4. The dual rate action also helps control roll because the sled (or car or whatever) has more sit-in/sag, and a lower center of gravity combined with less upward pressure on the inside ski. With linear springs, as you turn, for this example we will turn left, as you turn left the pressure shifts to the outside (right) ski for which you have resistance to roll from the spring on the right shock, but remember that there is upward pressure from the inside ski as well because the spring on the inside ski wants to extend. with a dual rate spring there is less upwards pressure because their is less effective spring rate on the inside (left) ski so the sled will naturally stay flatter.

This may explain it better than I can, at least the points 1, and 2 above. All of this btw is just my understanding. I have set up cars but have a lot more experience in motorcycles and quads from when I used to race. I am sure there are people here that are a lot more knowledgeable about snowmobile suspension systems.

 

[earthling]

The tighter coils are the softer rate. The coils that are spread apart further are the firmer, final rate.

Yes, it was confusing, I was trying to figure out how to cover both smaller diameter coils (tighter wound) vs smaller/larger gap (more or less lever per inch of travel). I probably made that confusing but the outcome is the same, only the effective spring rate changes.

 

[cannondale27]

Tip with the SRX springs. If they are hitting reservoir at your desired ride height turn them upside down. Lots of Springs out there. Hygear springs are high quality springs for sure. Not sure who makes them for them but Eibach and Hyperco are also very good springs. The Stock springs on our Yamahas are supposedly made in house by Arctic Cat. I think Eibach and Hyperco along with Hygear and even the Stingray spring are much better quality springs.

 

[jonlafon1]

I was not able to run the SRX front shock springs as you normally see them run.. They rub on the canister of the Fox QS3R fronts. 2022 LTX SE. Only way to run them in the "normal" orientation is way to tight IMO.. I like to run the front springs just snug with sled up in air on stand.. So going off Cannondale's advice I reversed them on my last trip and bingo! No rubbing and seem to be fine run upside down so to speak..

 

[Jefro]

That's how they came on my 2020 T-Cat.

 

[jonlafon1]

That's how they came on my 2020 T-Cat.

Yes those are standard Qs3?

 

[max rolph]

the Hygear springs just plain wrk amasing, you just need to adjust your sag in, i found that 2.5 sag is best with no weight on sled. The factory setting on those factory springs for 2020 lowered sleds were 3-3.25 sag, in order to put the Hygear springs on you need to take off the plastic protector on the tube.... just use a soldering gun with the flat spade tip on it or heat up an old butter knife red hot and slice dwn the plastic conector and then pul it off. no damage to shock tube. the new high gear springs come with a plastic slide protector. i also bought a RAPTOR 3 stage spring for centre shock but found out after i switched the shock to a reservoir race one that the coils touched the reservoir so i had to get the Hygear dual rate for that and its the best ride through the whoops when set at 1 turn from installed.