Love the comment by Yamaha...hahaha

[yamamarc]

Well, i can't race in stock form, so if one of them pulls along side, they best be prepared!

Haha same here

 

[pdiddy]

I have never forgiven Ski Doo for buying then eliminating Moto Ski...I have never and never will own a Ski Doo.

Wow, I thought I was the only one still holding that grudge. I'm still pissed too! Always had Doo's when I was a kid and my Moto-Ski rivals were always kicking my butt. I do need to thank Ski-Doo for making me as mechanically inclined as I am today though. When the Moto-Ski inclined tried to steal my 12/3 - they pushed it out of my back yard into the back 40 and were never able to start it out there! She was waiting out there in the middle of the field for me in the morning.

 

[yamadoo]

Guys lets not forget, they had plenty of time to design the sled and test and retest until they had what THEY wanted.

The cost of buying a few winders to test against is nothing for an OEM.

So when they release it IF they decided it was going beat a stock winder or NOT they know. We will see how important a drag race on the Lake was or if handling through the woods and on the trail are more important . The Fact they named it a Mach Z makes me think they think they are competitive.

I like Yamaha but its a mechanical product, built to the quality and performance the OEM decides, I also have had and like Doo hence the name YAMADOO I just hope they will compete and we will ALL get better sleds.

 

[VX1R]

Well said yamadoo. I'm pretty sure Ski Doo knows what they're bringing to the table with their new Mach Z.

Let's just remember why we're all in this sport.....to have fun!

"All sleds matter"

 

[yamamarc]

Valve shim retainers and antilag going in this summer. I'll be ready to show doo some yamaha dominating power

 

[VyperNation]

I think this ‘competition’ will be a healthy thing for us in the long run. If it doesn’t light a little bit of fire under Yamaha, then nothing will. They have been able to set the cruise control for the last five years. There hasn’t been any competition to this point. And as previous comments have suggested, it would take almost nothing other than a few key strokes on a keyboard and different clutch weights for yamaha to up their game significantly. I also can’t believe that they would publicly take a shot unless they had something in the works. 2022, I don’t know, but they have to be confident with something coming. I have family that are engineers for all of the big three’s diesel departments. They all have the ability to jump their HP significantly with nothing more than the flip of a switch, it’s been built in for years, they just wait for another manufacturer to up their numbers, then they jump.

For those thinking that jumping to a Doo will eliminate any issues, well, the grass isn’t always greener. One of my best friends has bled Doo as long as I have known him, currently has three. We met for lunch today and he said he was done with them. My jaw hit the floor. I never thought those words would come out of his mouth. All three are at the dealer with issues that Doo is refusing to warranty. Two have tracks that falling apart for no apparent reason. They are only a year old. The other just got back from extensive work and now has no power.

With that having been said, do I think the Doo will be more reliable stock for stock? Undoubtedly for those of us who put on miles. But I friggin love my Winders and you won’t pull the bars out of my hands!!! I saw a funny meme the other day that said “the grass is always greener where you water it”. It wasn’t sled related, but applies for me. I never leave anything stock, and with the help of the wonderful people that support our machines in the aftermarket world, most issues can be managed, and leave me with a machine that I don’t want to put away at night

 

[stevewithOCD]

Seems to be a lot of hate on the Doo and I don't get it. If I was happy running a stock 200 HP sled I'd be all over it. Renegade X is what I'd be buying if I was in the market for a 200 HP sled.

Knowing the 900R is 17.4 lbs. of boost should tell you guys it will be well over 180 HP, remember when the winder came out Yamaha called it 180 also? Some tuners are calling 16 lbs 185 HP, others are calling it 195, so do the math on that. Its going to be more than 180 for certain. The sled it replaced they called 150 and it made 163. It's going to make OVER 190-200 HP, take that to the bank.

My money stock for stock is on the Doo. The Doo is far lighter than a Winder, now add in the weight for power steering and the Winder will be even slower. The apex added #40 going to EPS does everyone forget that fact.

Now as far as adding boost with tunes, the Doo does not stand a chance, full tilt for full tilt. Then my money is on the 998 hand down. At least the Doo won't need the driveline modifications for reliability like the Cat does. For some that is huge. The Cat as we all know is in need of a few things to make it more reliable as not to ruin a trip. I don't get why Cat fails to fix this.

The Doo will be a great machine if you can put up with a rougher ride up front and harder steering. No I'm not ordering one, but for guys that don't like to wrench then this is the turbo for them. Is it going to beat the winder stock for stock, Id say yes. So what, tune the winder up if your butt hurt about that and move on.

I think this says it all.
Stock to stock is the only comparison that is fair, but i don't think there's a Stock Winder out there.
It's sooo EASY to get power out of these 998's.
Heck, my Ecotrail was only $300 & another hondo for blowoff valve and there was no STOCK sled that could touch that.

Crazy times we're in

 

[Winder_506]

It is weak compared to the tuned winders yes, but stock for stock it will outrun a winder, you will see. Think Doo hasn't run them stock for stock yet, guess again. Yamaha will need to up the boost to stay ahead of the Doo now that they are running 17.4 lbs! The Doo is sooooo much lighter! Yamaha better up the boost pressure a couple of pounds while they are at it for next year!

Doo going to ba a nice sled for the guys that just want to ride and not replace their top gear bushings every couple thousand miles, remove factory ROV's, weld tensioner bolts and add wedges to hold their bearing from spinning on the shafts. Some guys like to monkey and some like to ride. The guys that like to ride high miles without worry, the Doo will be a great nice light machine for them.

Myself I'm not giving up the Winder, you won't pry it from me, but its not the machine for everyone, that's all. For me, I'm all about the Winder once the fixes are on all in place and I won't give up the power. The Cat driveline should be better engineered from the factory so one doesn't have to almost completely re-work it to make it reliable.

I love Yamaha's comment on instagram, but stock for stock the Winder is going down against the Mach and that is my prediction, tuned for tuned the Mach doesn't stand a chance against a Winder.

I spent 70$ doing agreed, stupid fixes that shouldn need done, but it was literally 70$, have beat the crap out of that pro cross at 290hp and it’s been rock solid. Dealer replaced top gear end of last year on year end check up, who cares, 4 years warranty. 2 simple fixes and a 290hp trail sled is reliable as any. Let’s see a doo make 300hp and not break stuff over time...big difference making 205 hp tunes vs 290-300. Making power breaks #*$&@ plane and simple. The Mach z may trim a stock winder 660 feet, 1000 feet is a race and beyond that down the lake will be the SRX. There’s a reason the Mach has the studer. To give it the advantage off the line and just enough power to hold the SW off for the first 660 feet. Ski doo is not building this sled every year. It’s a one and done, that’s a chicken #*$&@ move in my book. It took them 5 year to formulate a plan to make a competitive sled in the hyper sled market so ya..they spent huge $ to release a sled for one spring check sale that can compete with the king stock to stock. They are still chickens for not letting it go on a few years back and forth cause Yamaha won’t take that punch sitting down... that’s my 2 cents one
The ugly AF Mach z....

 

[staggs65]

The tuners have already proven you can have a super safe conservative 240 stock muffler tune on the winders. Maybe Yamaha will up the ante. If they did I would guess maybe a SRX exclusive.

 

[fatchance]

I find it ironic that this is about bragging rights to being the fastest stock class sled on the lake when let's face it. The guys that show up at the lake are all far from stock. It's nothing more than a sales pitch, but hey if it works for them. Wait until these Doo owners get a taste of the boost and there's nowhere to go from there. We all know that once bitten, there is never enough power!

Same exact thing happened in the PWC world. Sea Doo designed a ski to just edge out the Yami GP1800R SVHO. Guess what? The guy that is racing is already tuned and we all know which brand is king there too. It makes for good conversation, but in the real world it falls short.

There's nothing wrong with being brand loyal. The only bummer with the sled division is at this point they're probly less loyal to me than i am to them........meaning, I will not purchase another sled until all the fixes are in place because, I'll be damned if i spend my time and money on another brand new sled like i did with this one! Once Yamaha does this and puts out a 250HP Winder with a flawless clutch and the known problems are addressed sign me up. I don't have a problem doing all the maintenance required on the wear items. Just not a fan of replacing new inferior parts and reengineering so much stuff.

 

[74Nitro]

I'm grateful for competition. There'd be little incentive for manufacturers to improve their products without it.
We'd all be driving LADA's.

 

[Dusty A.]

I love how all my friends wanted to race me when they got the 900t doo’s this season. I would just laugh as I passed them.
I like that another manufacturer is trying to challenge Yamaha. It will only push our sport in the right direction.
I look forward to next season when the black ducks will line up to race and still be beat by a 5 year old sled! *drops mic

 

[KnappAttack]

I spent 70$ doing agreed, stupid fixes that shouldn need done, but it was literally 70$, have beat the crap out of that pro cross at 290hp and it’s been rock solid. Dealer replaced top gear end of last year on year end check up, who cares, 4 years warranty. 2 simple fixes and a 290hp trail sled is reliable as any. Let’s see a doo make 300hp and not break stuff over time...big difference making 205 hp tunes vs 290-300. Making power breaks #*$&@ plane and simple. The Mach z may trim a stock winder 660 feet, 1000 feet is a race and beyond that down the lake will be the SRX. There’s a reason the Mach has the studer. To give it the advantage off the line and just enough power to hold the SW off for the first 660 feet. Ski doo is not building this sled every year. It’s a one and done, that’s a chicken #*$&@ move in my book. It took them 5 year to formulate a plan to make a competitive sled in the hyper sled market so ya..they spent huge $ to release a sled for one spring check sale that can compete with the king stock to stock. They are still chickens for not letting it go on a few years back and forth cause Yamaha won’t take that punch sitting down... that’s my 2 cents one
The ugly AF Mach z....

You can't even buy the Driveshaft saver or the DMC top gear for $70 so you didn't do ALL the fixes. What I'm saying is some people don't do these fixes and end up with a ruined trip, or they do the fixes and still end up with a ruined trip. Cat/Yamaha is not fixing these simple shortcomings like any other MFG would in the next years run, so its going to coat them a few customers. I know a few that ordering the Doo and I can't say I blame them. The don't care about running 300 either, they just want a good reliable machine, nothing more, nothing less. Their Yamaha/Cat has left them stranded on too many trips.

Anti-lag on a trail sled is not an advantage either, it will just dig a hole, better off rolling into the throttle. I have it on my winder and don't use it because it is a disadvantage in the snow. I wouldn't even want it on the Doo trail sled myself.

The Mach may be built for just one year, but the same exact machine minus the shocks can be purchased in a XRS version, a Renegade X version, an Enduro version and an adrenaline version. So who cares that the Mach is just a one year and done machine. The others will still be available, in fact over time (within the next couple maybe 3 years) you will see them bump the power up again, just like the did in the can-am side by side.

You guys are sure butt hurt about the ski-doo for some reason. The Doo is going to be a turn key sled that will run for tens of thousands of miles, some like it, so what, let them enjoy it.

We can enjoy our Winders, myself I plan to run the winder for many more years because I like the handling, power and everything about it, I also don't mind tinkering. I have no desire for the 180R, but I can see where others Doo.

I think the competition is great and I'd rather see that than stagnation in the brand. I applaud Doo for making it interesting and improving on the 900t.

 

[Sledroll]

I spent 70$ doing agreed, stupid fixes that shouldn need done, but it was literally 70$, have beat the crap out of that pro cross at 290hp and it’s been rock solid. Dealer replaced top gear end of last year on year end check up, who cares, 4 years warranty. 2 simple fixes and a 290hp trail sled is reliable as any. Let’s see a doo make 300hp and not break stuff over time...big difference making 205 hp tunes vs 290-300. Making power breaks #*$&@ plane and simple. The Mach z may trim a stock winder 660 feet, 1000 feet is a race and beyond that down the lake will be the SRX. There’s a reason the Mach has the studer. To give it the advantage off the line and just enough power to hold the SW off for the first 660 feet. Ski doo is not building this sled every year. It’s a one and done, that’s a chicken #*$&@ move in my book. It took them 5 year to formulate a plan to make a competitive sled in the hyper sled market so ya..they spent huge $ to release a sled for one spring check sale that can compete with the king stock to stock. They are still chickens for not letting it go on a few years back and forth cause Yamaha won’t take that punch sitting down... that’s my 2 cents one
The ugly AF Mach z....

I have been a Yamaha guy since early 80's .
So in 2005 I bought a Mach Z 1000 twin , just because , even though I had a 2003 RX-1 .
Other than some gremilns in programing , that sled was fricken amazing , and stock was way faster than my RX-1 , running around 119 mph on the lake !
Not only fast but stuck to the trails like glue.
I started hearing issues about that engine blowing up , and so I decided to sell it in 2007 ,
Sure enough one month after I sold it , it blew up .
They could not obviously figure that engine out , so they dropped it .
NO one is perfect !
My Apex GT 2006 was great.
My Apex 2015 XTX was the greatest .
My 2017 SW LTX-Le is now the greatester !!
I believe in these companies , to the point where I won't shy away from ANY first year offering .
And I have not been dissapointed , to the point that I would change that approach. (I know others have not been so fortunate )
I , and others like me ,had a year driving an amazing turbo sled , while a bunch of others decided to wait and see .
Everyone has to be comfortable with their decisions .
That's my 1.4 cents U.S !
I'm going riding !

 

[fatchance]

Sledroll i agree, but everything is relative......
The 119 you saw on the speedo was really maybe 105 mph
I thought my 2006 Attak was the best thing since sliced bread until i had to ride it last weekend and i couldn't wait to got off of it!!!!! (and by the way ....(I broke that sled in on shear ice and had many back to back runs on glare ice with 132 mph on the dream meter....laughable!)
Today we think our Sidewinders have been a gift from God, but hopefully in 5-10 years from now we can look back and say "My GOD I had to ride the Winder this weekend and couldn't WAIT to get off of It!!!! ( if i'm not drooling and crapping in my pants in a rocking chair 5-10 years from now of course)