MBRP header and race can good or bad on 2016 SR VIPER

[shagman]

We raced side by side in Wausau twice and once in Muni first year.You won that one. Yes I remember when both of our sleds were 112/113 on speedo but I don’t remember 108 on anyone’s gps. Really Nos do you honestly believe I have 170 hp since you claim that will give 108? Cmon. It would give a lot more than that!

Steve I don’t care what the hp numbers are. All I can tell you is your riding what is classified as a 600 class sled. I can also tell you that they are all slow now. All manufacturers not just Yamaha. I’ve watched the speeds go down for 7-8 years at the big mile oval in the Sault. Where it was common to run 112-114 mph on the front straightaway. The sleds struggle to get to 105 mph. That is all brands and these are full blown race sleds with a lot of knowledge and money behind them. FYI. I did see his sled go 108 on gps as I was right next to him. Then I hit throttle and left him. So it can be done. But you or anybody else that wants to try will only do it in perfect conditions like there was that day. If you want to go faster I would buy a bigger sled.


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[NOS-PRO]

Bullshit

Call it whatever you want. I've proven myself over and over and don't lie about anything. On the track and on the trail. Videos and pics running 105gps and 108gps and timeslips of 112-115mph on tar

We raced side by side in Wausau twice and once in Muni first year.You won that one. Yes I remember when both of our sleds were 112/113 on speedo but I don’t remember 108 on anyone’s gps. Really Nos do you honestly believe I have 170 hp since you claim that will give 108? Cmon. It would give a lot more than that!

246 lbs. rider without gear on a 141 1.6, 8 inch skis and stock 21/41 gearing....that is what it is and that is what the dyno said. To me that is pretty damn good for a Viper.

The only people I raced against on trail were my son and Shagman for testing. Never raced side by side next to you in Wausau...you have me mistaken for someone else.

 

[cannondale27]

Call it whatever you want. I've proven myself over and over and don't lie about anything. On the track and on the trail. Videos and pics running 105gps and 108gps and timeslips of 112-115mph on tar



246 lbs. rider without gear on a 141 1.6, 8 inch skis and stock 21/41 gearing....that is what it is and that is what the dyno said. To me that is pretty damn good for a Viper.

The only people I raced against on trail were my son and Shagman for testing. Never raced side by side next to you in Wausau...you have me mistaken for someone else.

We did it twice Terry. Maybe 3 times. Whatever. I know you do the work and I know you help many including me but your selective memory is hurting your reputation. Just try to remember the feeling of being severely disappointed countless times when you and I could not even reach 90-100 in poor conditions. Thats all I ask. Just dont want people to have unrealistic expectations such as 110mph on snow with a clutch kit or even 100mph everytime on trail. It is just not true. You can have the last word if you like but I have said my peace.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Steve, I was called out by you in post #8 and then mentioned that it was bullshit what I said. I never said anything about joe schmoe's Viper not doing 100 or anything...I posted everything about my sled, my Viper's hpr, the hpr difference between the stock header, what my sled runs for mph and the numbers that were achieved on EVO's dyno with all the mods. Never mentioned anything else.

As far as helping many? Yes I do. Tim and I answer numerous PM's, emails, FB messages and texts....every single one to help people out. I do this for the love of the sport and the friends I have met. We have worked with EVO, Thunder Products and many others to get proven results. Being called a liar to my face is one thing, but call me a liar to people behind my back Steve? Really?! You know who I am talking about. Do I remember everything about that day? No, I do not. But I do know the trail was narrow and I did not race anyone side by side. Say what you want...there were a lot of people there that day, I was on so many sleds and helping people clutch their sleds. Especially @aquaticlaker sled who could only get 96mph and after working on his bone stock Viper the next weekend, I got it to run 103mph, 101gps with Thunder Products clutching and clutching only. So a stock Viper can do over 100mph and every Viper probably could if you take the time and the right components to do it. You were there that day on the river.

As Shagman has mentioned....this is a 600cc class sled. Those buying the Viper should know that...but when they hear 1049cc, they think crotch rocket performance and it is far from it. Will all of them do 100mph? No, Probably not. Will most of them with the right mods go over 100mph? Yes they will. Did my sled run these speed and hpr numbers? Yes it did. And that was all I was posting.

 

[ROOSTnBOOST]

Steve, I was called out by you in post #8 and then mentioned that it was bullshit what I said. I never said anything about joe schmoe's Viper not doing 100 or anything...I posted everything about my sled, my Viper's hpr, the hpr difference between the stock header, what my sled runs for mph and the numbers that were achieved on EVO's dyno with all the mods. Never mentioned anything else.

As far as helping many? Yes I do. Tim and I answer numerous PM's, emails, FB messages and texts....every single one to help people out. I do this for the love of the sport and the friends I have met. We have worked with EVO, Thunder Products and many others to get proven results. Being called a liar to my face is one thing, but call me a liar to people behind my back Steve? Really?! You know who I am talking about. Do I remember everything about that day? No, I do not. But I do know the trail was narrow and I did not race anyone side by side. Say what you want...there were a lot of people there that day, I was on so many sleds and helping people clutch their sleds. Especially @aquaticlaker sled who could only get 96mph and after working on his bone stock Viper the next weekend, I got it to run 103mph, 101gps with Thunder Products clutching and clutching only. So a stock Viper can do over 100mph and every Viper probably could if you take the time and the right components to do it. You were there that day on the river.

As Shagman has mentioned....this is a 600cc class sled. Those buying the Viper should know that...but when they hear 1049cc, they think crotch rocket performance and it is far from it. Will all of them do 100mph? No, Probably not. Will most of them with the right mods go over 100mph? Yes they will. Did my sled run these speed and hpr numbers? Yes it did. And that was all I was posting.

Ok am I joe schmoe? I'm not looking for a sled to drag race seeings how I'm riding MTX. If I wanted to drag race I would have bought xtx or ltx. All I am looking for is advice on how to get more hp out of viper. It is a 2016 so a turbo isn't an option. I also looked at the excel airbox mod but i think in front at the radiator shrouds it would plug off. Dont think it would work so well in deep mountain powder. We don't get alot of snow so we ride the mountains not trails or lakes where u wanna be faster than everyone else. I wasn't looking for a big argument between people.... I was looking for advice on getting more performance (hp/torque). If I lived near NOS PRO I would like 2 try your sled with evo set up and see how much gain it has over stock and not speed wise. I guarantee I'm not 160 hp let alone 170 hp with the mbrp can, clutching, airbox mod, evo stage 4 flash and cant see the evo header giving me another say 15 or more hp. If u can make a stock sled do 100 mph then your changing gearing, clutching and machining clutches to get that speed. I would rather get the hp and then worry about the speed if I wanted to perform on trail/lakes. If the evo stage 4 setup was to make 170 hp I would think alot of people would have went that way rather than the cost of turbo. If you search evo stage 4 results from people there ISN'T alot. Anyway wish I could ride a Viper with the complete evo stage 4 kit to prove myself wrong or maybe not. Also if there is then who's to say the person doesn't work for or own EVO. Do any of u work for EVO?

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[NOS-PRO]

Hey ROOST, wish you lived closer also so you could have tried mine or @Dave_RX1 . Sorry about the post going haywire as I know you were looking for advice.

No machining, no gearing change...just clutching is what helped @aquaticlaker , @SnoNinja and so many others. SnoNinja's video of 105mph is on Youtube. But i know you aren't looking for speed.... so I will just say "my Viper" with the EVO header improved acceleration, was immediately responsive compared to stock header and showed on timeslips when running tar...but I did have airbox mod, stage 4 flash and clutching. So, to be a true statement for the header to be more torque than stock alone? I would say yes, but I think you would need a good exhaust and airbox mod to make the header show it's true results. That's as honest as I can be. Just doing the header....I don't think it would gain because the stock exhaust is so restrictive.

I have since then turboed my Viper because I got a great deal on a used turbo setup from a friend and still using the EVO header. Now.... I do not work for EVO and do not collect a check from EVO....but I do buy products and do testing on several flashes, exhausts and other performance products they sell. Out of all the headers sold, there are far more people using the header than you will find in a search on TY.

The shorty header, there are a lot that lost rpm and pants feel torque and responsiveness. @murdered137 will attest to that. Just stating facts.....

 

[murdered141]

I put the slp shorty header on my ltx cause i got an awesome deal on a evo stage 4 flashed ecu, i had ulmers 3 k&n intake, sandale can, and big venom clutching, sled had awesome low end and unbelievable midrange, but just fell flat on its face on top, couldn't get above 8850 rpm, struggled to get past 90 mph, could do low 100's before, tried many clutching and belt combo's too.
My take on this is get the same brand header as the tune or flash is from, it was tuned to work good together, i made a mistake, but since turboed, so i got all the power and rpm I can handle now.

 

[ROOSTnBOOST]

Hey ROOST, wish you lived closer also so you could have tried mine or @Dave_RX1 . Sorry about the post going haywire as I know you were looking for advice.

No machining, no gearing change...just clutching is what helped @aquaticlaker , @SnoNinja and so many others. SnoNinja's video of 105mph is on Youtube. But i know you aren't looking for speed.... so I will just say "my Viper" with the EVO header improved acceleration, was immediately responsive compared to stock header and showed on timeslips when running tar...but I did have airbox mod, stage 4 flash and clutching. So, to be a true statement for the header to be more torque than stock alone? I would say yes, but I think you would need a good exhaust and airbox mod to make the header show it's true results. That's as honest as I can be. Just doing the header....I don't think it would gain because the stock exhaust is so restrictive.

I have since then turboed my Viper because I got a great deal on a used turbo setup from a friend and still using the EVO header. Now.... I do not work for EVO and do not collect a check from EVO....but I do buy products and do testing on several flashes, exhausts and other performance products they sell. Out of all the headers sold, there are far more people using the header than you will find in a search on TY.

The shorty header, there are a lot that lost rpm and pants feel torque and responsiveness. @murdered137 will attest to that. Just stating facts.....

Thanks NOS PRO! Am I gonna put another MBRP header on a sled...... Not gonna happen. The only other header that looks appealing other than evo is the hindle header. Not sure if ulmer header/straight line header is different size tubing or what but what I can see is there is a bit of difference compared to the MBRP header. I guess all in all wanna wake the sled up but not wanting to spend about $1300 on a header alone which is why I am looking for advice on other headers. There is other stuff I want to do also which is heavy steering. The center shock spring and air pressures do help as well as sanding the steering column bushings a bit as well as grease in them but still feels a bit heavy. I'm gonna try moving the lower shock mount forward on the center shock. I'm not looking to win the wheelie contest just wanna get a little more lift and lighter steering. Again I like changing stuff to see if it is for the better and if it isn't then change it back. If u have a passion for motorsports then in my opinion u will try to make things better rather than just wine and complain and hey some of the changes are minimal and don't break the bank like some of my friends who ride other brands over the years and keep going back. A little of topic but it will be interesting to see the 2019 line up. What's going to fill the gap from phazer to sidewinder? Personally I would like to see a kick #*$&@ 2 stroke to give people an option other than just 4stroke. Also don't wanna see a 4 cylinder in a sled ever again in our neck of the woods because again most people ride the mountains and mountain riders aren't going to buy a sled with 4 cylinders and we all know why. I am die hard yamaha fan and wish they would have skipped the rx1 and apex. If they would have had nytro right of the bat or maybe even skipped that chassis and a chassis along the line of viper I think yamaha would have had guys jump ship where we are at. I also know the mountain sled side of sales aren't as high as other models but they never will be if u don't give what people want. Don't get me wrong the sidewinder is what people want but a sled that would be 160-170 hp NA out of the crate that handles great and a great chassis. Would like to see alot more blue on snow where we are at [emoji106]. Now this is just my opinion and everyone has their own opinions.


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[yammitrip1]

To the OP, imo. If I had all that stuff done, I'd be looking for ways to lighten the sled up with your money rather then try to make hp without throwing a turbo on it. I too agree a 170 hp sled would be awesome!!! N/a of course. Freeing up the intake and following it up with an exhaust is about all it's worth to spend the money on.

As to Terry and steve. Proof is in the pudding. Didn't Steve through the Evo header on and only get 102-103 mph vs the top speed run with ulmer header(straight line) got 108-109.


If you got a dyno graph of 170hp I'd love to see it . Pretty frican awesome if you did.

 

[ROOSTnBOOST]

To the OP, imo. If I had all that stuff done, I'd be looking for ways to lighten the sled up with your money rather then try to make hp without throwing a turbo on it. I too agree a 170 hp sled would be awesome!!! N/a of course. Freeing up the intake and following it up with an exhaust is about all it's worth to spend the money on.

As to Terry and steve. Proof is in the pudding. Didn't Steve through the Evo header on and only get 102-103 mph vs the top speed run with ulmer header(straight line) got 108-109.


If you got a dyno graph of 170hp I'd love to see it . Pretty frican awesome if you did.

I hear where your coming from when it comes 2 shedding weight off the sled. First I would like to get as much possible out of performance. If the EVO stage 4 kit was legit then that would be awesome because it would be cheaper than a turbo and also some people shy away from turbos because they think it's 2 complicated. I have owned 2 nytro with MCXPRESS turbo 270 hp kits. MCXPRESS makes a very good turbo kit but I wanted to go NA this time because most the guys I go to the mountains with r NA whether it's a yamaha, doo, polaris or cat. I 2 would like to see ACTUAL dyno results for the EVO stage 4 kit. The reason I asked in the first place about the MBRP header pipe was because I wanted honest opinions and also wanted honest opinions as we went on 2 talk about EVO. I would still like to know about the hindle header because it's very similar to EVOs header. I'm not saying EVOs header doesn't work better than everyone else's but I need proof first. I also wouldn't make performance parts without actually knowing they improve performance (MBRP).

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[cannondale27]

Here is my theory. Even if you make 170 hp at engine and it was at engine. You have to get it to the track. CVT losses efficiency very quickly at high rpm. That reason Apex and Phazer have gear reduction. Clutch is not meant to have even 9000rpm. So if said 170hp is produced at say 9700rpm almost all is lost in cvt before it even gets to track.

 

[yammitrip1]

ROOST, totally understandable. But as we have learned, some companies will skew results of there product just to get the product on the top of someone's shopping list.

The turbos do seem rather complicated to install, which is a shame. Hurricanes kit seems to be the best of the best in my opinion!

Hindle is not talked much on this site as it use to be for the nytro. I wonder why? Hopefully someone chimes in with there product.

 

[SnoNinja]

I'll chime in on this one. Clutching and Sandale can ran 103 twice and 105 on clean road side in what I would consider ideal low drag snow. I can't speak to MBRP header, but I have since added Straightline header, free air box mod, and EVO Stage 4 flash. All of the last mods were installed at same time so I don't know what contributed the most, but I do know that my combination added very noticeable low end and mid range, and 400 - 500 RPM at wide open as I went from 8800 peak to 9250. I have since added .8 grams to the tips and now have stable 9050 to 9100. I also have 15 XTX to compare to. On our first ride this season, I switched sleds with my son, and after he got off the LTX and his comments were "we've got to flash the XTX". On clean hard trail I can gear-out. The gains with this combination on my sled have been very real. Is it on par with a turbo? No, never will be, but that's not what I was looking for. I was after the low end no lag torque of a NA sled.

@shagman has been around my sled since its early days, and has seen it evolve.

My XTX will be getting the same treatment.

 

[ROOSTnBOOST]

I'll chime in on this one. Clutching and Sandale can ran 103 twice and 105 on clean road side in what I would consider ideal low drag snow. I can't speak to MBRP header, but I have since added Straightline header, free air box mod, and EVO Stage 4 flash. All of the last mods were installed at same time so I don't know what contributed the most, but I do know that my combination added very noticeable low end and mid range, and 400 - 500 RPM at wide open as I went from 8800 peak to 9250. I have since added .8 grams to the tips and now have stable 9050 to 9100. I also have 15 XTX to compare to. On our first ride this season, I switched sleds with my son, and after he got off the LTX and his comments were "we've got to flash the XTX". On clean hard trail I can gear-out. The gains with this combination on my sled have been very real. Is it on par with a turbo? No, never will be, but that's not what I was looking for. I was after the low end no lag torque of a NA sled.

@shagman has been around my sled since its early days, and has seen it evolve.

My XTX will be getting the same treatment.

So when you say "free airbox mod" which mod is it?

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[SnoNinja]

So when you say "free airbox mod" which mod is it?

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Stingray's free airbox mod. No velocity stacks.

https://ty4stroke.com/threads/air-box-mod-updated.132519/