Well........I have my PCIII, Ignition Mod, and Wideband system all figured out.
With two 15gram nozzles and Rocket Brand 111 Octane fuel, my Apex runs 11.9A/F with 27% extra fuel added through the injectors via the PCIII.
I took a very SAFE 4 degrees timing out, and activated the spray @ 8500rpm.
Spark Plugs look good, no heat or detonation problems so far.
I researched for hours on which control system to buy, the RB3 or the PCIII.
With help from Allen Ulmer, 87GTNOS, and NOS PRO, I 'm WAY glad I chose the PCIII.
The LCD screen, an almost required option for true tuning imo,lets you log your runs and record speed, rpm, time, and injector duty cycle. I can also load as many maps as I want to test on any given day at the track without having to plug in the laptop(a great help if it's snowing!)
The fuel and ignition map charts are WAY easy to use, it's a great system.
The LCD has a feature where you can trim fuel in the low mid or high rpm range right there on your handlebar and you can see what your actually doing without guessing.
A great way to add a bit of safety margin if the A/F is close.....
Terry sent me two 20gram nozzles, so I'm gonna spray 70 grams, which should work out to be 350-400hp.
Results will be posted...!
With two 15gram nozzles and Rocket Brand 111 Octane fuel, my Apex runs 11.9A/F with 27% extra fuel added through the injectors via the PCIII.
I took a very SAFE 4 degrees timing out, and activated the spray @ 8500rpm.
Spark Plugs look good, no heat or detonation problems so far.
I researched for hours on which control system to buy, the RB3 or the PCIII.
With help from Allen Ulmer, 87GTNOS, and NOS PRO, I 'm WAY glad I chose the PCIII.
The LCD screen, an almost required option for true tuning imo,lets you log your runs and record speed, rpm, time, and injector duty cycle. I can also load as many maps as I want to test on any given day at the track without having to plug in the laptop(a great help if it's snowing!)
The fuel and ignition map charts are WAY easy to use, it's a great system.
The LCD has a feature where you can trim fuel in the low mid or high rpm range right there on your handlebar and you can see what your actually doing without guessing.
A great way to add a bit of safety margin if the A/F is close.....
Terry sent me two 20gram nozzles, so I'm gonna spray 70 grams, which should work out to be 350-400hp.
Results will be posted...!
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Are you running the Holman nozzles? If not, How does your system adjust for changes in bottle pressure? Can you buy just the holtzman nozzles?
I'm running a Polaris now and thinking of installing my old (Boondocker) Nitrous kit from my Apex on it. On my Polaris I am running a PCIII. What other Power Commander components would I have to buy? It looks like I would just need the Hub and Relay. Is that correct?
Wayne
P.S. Your stock injectors and stock fuel pump are way too small to run that much juice. They won't pass enough fuel for much more than a 100HP shot. Better upsize those if you want it to work.
I'm running a Polaris now and thinking of installing my old (Boondocker) Nitrous kit from my Apex on it. On my Polaris I am running a PCIII. What other Power Commander components would I have to buy? It looks like I would just need the Hub and Relay. Is that correct?
Wayne
P.S. Your stock injectors and stock fuel pump are way too small to run that much juice. They won't pass enough fuel for much more than a 100HP shot. Better upsize those if you want it to work.
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Wayne, to run the NOS you would just need the Multi-Function Hub & relay wiring harness. I have both these in stock, but unfortunately I probably won't get back to the shop until Monday.
Thanks for the info Wayne...
I am using Barry's nozzles, and adding through the PCIII. i still have the fule valve hooked up, so I can add extra through there as well. With 30gps of spray, and only adding 27% more fuel, why wouldn't the stock injectors add enuff with 70gps??
IMHO, I would buy the LCD from Allen and the cable to link it....it is a WAY better setup than the switch and hub. Just turn your spray on with a button. That way, you can have as many MAPs as your SD card will hold, rather than just two with the switch.
D
I am using Barry's nozzles, and adding through the PCIII. i still have the fule valve hooked up, so I can add extra through there as well. With 30gps of spray, and only adding 27% more fuel, why wouldn't the stock injectors add enuff with 70gps??
IMHO, I would buy the LCD from Allen and the cable to link it....it is a WAY better setup than the switch and hub. Just turn your spray on with a button. That way, you can have as many MAPs as your SD card will hold, rather than just two with the switch.
D
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
If you are gaining about 2.5-3 Hp per gram you would be trying to add about 200HP worth of nitrous???
When Dynotech tested some apexes with Turbos the stock fuel pump and injectors ran out of capacity around 240-250 HP Total. Anything bigger than a 100 Hp shot you'll need to up the "fuel" if you want it to flow through the injectors.
Assuming your air/fuel ratios remain similar to stock a/f ratios if you are only adding about 27% fuel then you are probably adding only 27% more horsepower. So, you probably are only getting about 45HP out of the shot you have now. I may be wrong on this but I don't think so. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Wayne
When Dynotech tested some apexes with Turbos the stock fuel pump and injectors ran out of capacity around 240-250 HP Total. Anything bigger than a 100 Hp shot you'll need to up the "fuel" if you want it to flow through the injectors.
Assuming your air/fuel ratios remain similar to stock a/f ratios if you are only adding about 27% fuel then you are probably adding only 27% more horsepower. So, you probably are only getting about 45HP out of the shot you have now. I may be wrong on this but I don't think so. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Wayne
yep, 200hp
The way I see it, boost from a turbo or SC, is different than spray.
When an engine is boosted, you are actually increasing the "size" of the cylinder, i.e. making it's displacement larger by forcing a more dense volume of air into the cylinder.
That volume burns fuel. Alot of it.
N2O, while also packing a more dense volume of air into the cylinder, actually boosts the volumetric efficiency of the powerplant.
So by increasing V/E, it will burn 100% of the fuel that is normally injected into the cylinder.
By doing this, the fuel that is needed to maintain the proper A/F ratio is less than say a turbo or S/C.
I hope I am explaining this correctly, because in my experience, the amount of fuel needed to run safe N20 horsepower is a lot less than you would think.
When running a more dense fuel, even less is needed.
Nitrous gains are realized more from adding extra oxygen into the system than fuel.
Case in point, with 90HP of spray, I am only adding 27% more fuel to attain an 11.9-12.0 A/F ratio, at less than 60% injector duty cycle.
60% duty cycle, to me, is WAY safe for running 1000ft.
BTW, my stock A/F is around 13-13.5 at WOT.
The way I see it, boost from a turbo or SC, is different than spray.
When an engine is boosted, you are actually increasing the "size" of the cylinder, i.e. making it's displacement larger by forcing a more dense volume of air into the cylinder.
That volume burns fuel. Alot of it.
N2O, while also packing a more dense volume of air into the cylinder, actually boosts the volumetric efficiency of the powerplant.
So by increasing V/E, it will burn 100% of the fuel that is normally injected into the cylinder.
By doing this, the fuel that is needed to maintain the proper A/F ratio is less than say a turbo or S/C.
I hope I am explaining this correctly, because in my experience, the amount of fuel needed to run safe N20 horsepower is a lot less than you would think.
When running a more dense fuel, even less is needed.
Nitrous gains are realized more from adding extra oxygen into the system than fuel.
Case in point, with 90HP of spray, I am only adding 27% more fuel to attain an 11.9-12.0 A/F ratio, at less than 60% injector duty cycle.
60% duty cycle, to me, is WAY safe for running 1000ft.
BTW, my stock A/F is around 13-13.5 at WOT.
stoutner
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
The nice thing about it is you have a wideband a/f and will know really quickly if you run short of fuel.
I may be wrong but it was explained to me that your engine consumes X lbs per hour per horsepower. A stock Apex consumes around .50 pounds per hp per hour of fuel at wide open throttle. If you add twice the Hp you need to add twice the fuel to keep this ratio. This ratio coincides almost exactly with a/f ratio. Right now you are trying to add 90Hp with only 27% extra gas. If you are in fact adding 90 HP worth of nitrous.
Give it a shot. Your a/f gauge will tell you one way or another. The only other thing you have to do is spray a whole bottle and time how long it takes to empty it. That way, you'll know for sure how big of a spray you are running.
I may be wrong but it was explained to me that your engine consumes X lbs per hour per horsepower. A stock Apex consumes around .50 pounds per hp per hour of fuel at wide open throttle. If you add twice the Hp you need to add twice the fuel to keep this ratio. This ratio coincides almost exactly with a/f ratio. Right now you are trying to add 90Hp with only 27% extra gas. If you are in fact adding 90 HP worth of nitrous.
Give it a shot. Your a/f gauge will tell you one way or another. The only other thing you have to do is spray a whole bottle and time how long it takes to empty it. That way, you'll know for sure how big of a spray you are running.
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Derek, got your pic and it looks good!
Wayne,
I control my spray through my WideBand Commander(Dynojet) it will shut off at whatever A/F I set it at, so it is safe that way.
As far as Horsepower levels, with out dyno time, I am going off of Barry's nozzle rating.
D
I control my spray through my WideBand Commander(Dynojet) it will shut off at whatever A/F I set it at, so it is safe that way.
As far as Horsepower levels, with out dyno time, I am going off of Barry's nozzle rating.
D
Well.......I didnt get to spray my Apex..
Thing died 20 yards from the track and never ran again all weekend=(
Thing died 20 yards from the track and never ran again all weekend=(
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Derek, where were you buddy?
I was there all day lake racing and the drags.
I was there all day lake racing and the drags.
Towed my ride back to the house, then came back with a buddies F5, then to the Lakewoods for 16 Jim and Cokes!!!!
rehm70 said:
At least the sled looked fast we should have left it on the lake for a show piece! And I only counted 10 jim and cokes!
kinger
VIP Member
I was at lakewoods a week before you after a bum trip and being towed home! I think I had around 10 shots to drown my sorrows LOL
Sorry you didn't get to run, what happened?
Sorry you didn't get to run, what happened?
.
I dunno, I might have gotten water in the motor somehow, cuz it died on Sat morning on the way to the track.
Friday evening, we raced a bit, never sprayed it, but it was so warm that day, there was a ton of water on the lake.
I rode the thing 10 miles that night-things were fine, then Sat morning during the 2 mile ride to the track, everything was OK, just one full throttle blast to check my RPMs on the big end, that was it.
Nothing out of the ordinary. The motor shut off while off the throttle at about 15-20 MPH. Went to start it, and it wouldnt run. Code 22 flashed on the dash, which is IAT sensor. Took the airbox cover off, and there was massive oil in the thing. I suppose the IAT sensor got wet with hot oil and tripped the code.
I got towed back to the cabin, took out the plugs, and they look normal...nothing. Alot of blowby comes out of the tube while cranking, I mean ALOT!.
It wont start, but I haven't spent any time on it since we got home. All I know is, while cranking, all four throttle bodies have vacuum.
Gonna call the dealer 2morrow.
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I dunno, I might have gotten water in the motor somehow, cuz it died on Sat morning on the way to the track.
Friday evening, we raced a bit, never sprayed it, but it was so warm that day, there was a ton of water on the lake.
I rode the thing 10 miles that night-things were fine, then Sat morning during the 2 mile ride to the track, everything was OK, just one full throttle blast to check my RPMs on the big end, that was it.
Nothing out of the ordinary. The motor shut off while off the throttle at about 15-20 MPH. Went to start it, and it wouldnt run. Code 22 flashed on the dash, which is IAT sensor. Took the airbox cover off, and there was massive oil in the thing. I suppose the IAT sensor got wet with hot oil and tripped the code.
I got towed back to the cabin, took out the plugs, and they look normal...nothing. Alot of blowby comes out of the tube while cranking, I mean ALOT!.
It wont start, but I haven't spent any time on it since we got home. All I know is, while cranking, all four throttle bodies have vacuum.
Gonna call the dealer 2morrow.
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