Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
APR-20-2017 EDIT
There are no pictures as Imageshack has deleted my account in their changeover. I'll re-upload them once I get around to digging into this again.
To sum it up the loctite/bearing retainer method was only a temporary fix, rattle came back after a few rides. I have an idea for a mechanical solution but won't get around to it until later this year.
-------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone, I am writing this to help others who have rattling clutch woes on their Nytro at idle.
First off a big thanks goes to Tarzan, Kimoajaj, and Dimebag, who have all helped confirm this is possible.
Some sleds seem to rattle more than others, and my 2009 XTX is brutal. I wanted to attempt this mod last year, but never found the guts or time to do it.
I understand it is the 3 cylinder harmonics of the engine making this rattle, but it can be fixed.
First off,
There are quite a few discussions regarding the clutch rattle. Before attempting this last solution, try these others ones...some people have had success with these simple ones.
1. Put O-rings or nylon washers behind the roller bolts. They are loose and likely contribute to the rattle. I did this and it helped a bit. (See page 5 for pic!)
2. Have your clutch separated and replace the black plastic paws and o-rings on the spider. I also did this with no luck.
3. Inspect your weights and bearings to ensure they are not loose and flopping around.
If none of the above work for eliminating your rattle, grab your primary clutch and wiggle it clockwise and counterclockwise. If you can see both the front and back sheaves of the clutch moving roughly 1/8" back and forth, the below solution is for you!
____________________________________________________________
Turns out the clutch is held onto the crank via a separate stub shaft. This stub shaft is splined to the crank. However on some sleds, the crank spline was out of spec and is a little loose, causing the two splined parts to rattle at idle.
After much research and help from Tarzan, Kimoajaj, and Dimebag, we have confirmed you can remove this stub shaft without tearing the engine down
Its super easy too!
Tools Required:
-Clutch Puller Tool
-10mm socket
-12mm wrench
-22mm wrench or socket for primary clutch bolt.
-Loctite 648 or Wurth bearing retainer. (648 is working with 300km so far.)
-Acetone and small brush and rag
-OPTIONAL crankcase sealant or RTV sealant.
Instructions:
Please read all the instructions before beginning!
Before starting this, my sled has been sitting and not started for about 2 weeks so there would be minimal oil in the system.
I recommend letting your sled sit for at least a few hours if you are attempting this mod.
1. Remove your side panel to gain access to clutch.
2. Remove the belt.
3. Remove the primary clutch bolt using the 22mm tool.
4. Using your puller, remove the clutch from the machine. If you do not have a puller, your dealer could remove the clutch for you and you can reinstall it from home.
5. It was under my impression once the shaft is removed, oil will leak out since the inner bearing is lucubrated by the engine oil. Thus, I tipped my sled up on its side.
6. Loosen the two 12mm bolts marked in yellow with your wrench. You do not need to remove them completely, just back them off about 1/8".
7. Remove the x4 10mm bolts circled in red.
8. Before attempting to remove the stub shaft, clean up any dirt around the surrounding area. You don't want that crap in your engine do you?
**Picture is sideways**
9. What I have done here is rigged up a slide hammer. I used the clutch bolt and threaded it into the stub shaft until it bottomed. I have a hunk of aluminum with a 1/2" hole and used it to tap the top of the bolt and remove the stub shaft. You can use a large socket for this. Keep gently tapping until the stub shaft is removed....go slowly and tap as gently as possible.
10. Stub shaft is out!
11. Here is a breakdown of what you are looking at.
As you can see, I had some rust on the bearing support. I cleaned this up with some fine sandpaper to aid in reinstalltion.
You can also see that the seal has been pushed to the left and is butted up against the crank sensor gear. This will happen during disassembly. Simply push the seal back against the bearing retainer with your fingers. You can see where it belongs in the pic below.
Here is what it looks like inside the engine.
Turns out I did not have to have the sled titled up. No oil anywhere. I tiled the sled back down slowly and to my surprise once it was level again no oil was leaking anywhere.
12. Here you can see I have sanded off the rust on the bearing housing.
13. Take some acetone and a small brush and clean the splines both on the stub shaft and in the engine. I used a clean rag and stuffed it into the crankcase to prevent any acetone from getting on into the engine. This will promote adhesion with the Loctite.
14. I have applied a thin coat of MotoSeal crankcase sealant (or you could use RTV sealant) to the outside surface of the block where the bearing retainer presses in. This should prevent any more water from getting in there and rusting. Added insurance, but optional step.
15. Fill the splines of the stub shaft with loctite. Only put the loctite on the stub shaft. Only fill about 3/4 of the way in. The loctite will get pushed back further during assembly, and you don't want it dripping everywhere in your engine!
**Note, I did add a bit more loctite after this picture was taken..it seems i was a little skimpy at first.
**The working time is roughly 5-10 mins using the 680 loctite. The working time for the motoseal I used is 30 minutes.
16. Slide the stub shaft back onto the crank (it can only go on in one direction, one spline is shorter, keeping the orientation). Once you have it pushed in far enough, you can then use the x4 10mm bolts to suck the bearing back into the crankcase. Tighten each bolt evenly to ensure it goes in straight.
17. Torque the x4 10mm bolts to spec (red circles). Torque the x2 12mm bolts to spec (yellow).
18. Lastly, I have gently bolted the clutch back on, and I turned the engine over a few revolutions using the wrench. What I have done in this pic is hung a weight off the wrench causing the clutch to put pressure in a clockwise direction on the crank. This way, when I am driving the snowmobile, the forces will be on the metal splines, but at idle, the Loctite is there to prevent the rattling.
I will be letting this sit for 2 days (EDIT: actually let it sit for 1week), before I start the sled up. The loctite 648 is cured in 24hours, but longer will ensure good adhesion between the splines.
That's it! Wash up and have a few beer....and most importantly next time your out riding and come to a stop....listen to the motor purring away and not the clutch!
There are no pictures as Imageshack has deleted my account in their changeover. I'll re-upload them once I get around to digging into this again.
To sum it up the loctite/bearing retainer method was only a temporary fix, rattle came back after a few rides. I have an idea for a mechanical solution but won't get around to it until later this year.
-------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone, I am writing this to help others who have rattling clutch woes on their Nytro at idle.
First off a big thanks goes to Tarzan, Kimoajaj, and Dimebag, who have all helped confirm this is possible.
Some sleds seem to rattle more than others, and my 2009 XTX is brutal. I wanted to attempt this mod last year, but never found the guts or time to do it.
I understand it is the 3 cylinder harmonics of the engine making this rattle, but it can be fixed.
First off,
There are quite a few discussions regarding the clutch rattle. Before attempting this last solution, try these others ones...some people have had success with these simple ones.
1. Put O-rings or nylon washers behind the roller bolts. They are loose and likely contribute to the rattle. I did this and it helped a bit. (See page 5 for pic!)
2. Have your clutch separated and replace the black plastic paws and o-rings on the spider. I also did this with no luck.
3. Inspect your weights and bearings to ensure they are not loose and flopping around.
If none of the above work for eliminating your rattle, grab your primary clutch and wiggle it clockwise and counterclockwise. If you can see both the front and back sheaves of the clutch moving roughly 1/8" back and forth, the below solution is for you!
____________________________________________________________
Turns out the clutch is held onto the crank via a separate stub shaft. This stub shaft is splined to the crank. However on some sleds, the crank spline was out of spec and is a little loose, causing the two splined parts to rattle at idle.
After much research and help from Tarzan, Kimoajaj, and Dimebag, we have confirmed you can remove this stub shaft without tearing the engine down
Its super easy too!
Tools Required:
-Clutch Puller Tool
-10mm socket
-12mm wrench
-22mm wrench or socket for primary clutch bolt.
-Loctite 648 or Wurth bearing retainer. (648 is working with 300km so far.)
-Acetone and small brush and rag
-OPTIONAL crankcase sealant or RTV sealant.
Instructions:
Please read all the instructions before beginning!
Before starting this, my sled has been sitting and not started for about 2 weeks so there would be minimal oil in the system.
I recommend letting your sled sit for at least a few hours if you are attempting this mod.
1. Remove your side panel to gain access to clutch.
2. Remove the belt.
3. Remove the primary clutch bolt using the 22mm tool.
4. Using your puller, remove the clutch from the machine. If you do not have a puller, your dealer could remove the clutch for you and you can reinstall it from home.
5. It was under my impression once the shaft is removed, oil will leak out since the inner bearing is lucubrated by the engine oil. Thus, I tipped my sled up on its side.
6. Loosen the two 12mm bolts marked in yellow with your wrench. You do not need to remove them completely, just back them off about 1/8".
7. Remove the x4 10mm bolts circled in red.
8. Before attempting to remove the stub shaft, clean up any dirt around the surrounding area. You don't want that crap in your engine do you?
**Picture is sideways**
9. What I have done here is rigged up a slide hammer. I used the clutch bolt and threaded it into the stub shaft until it bottomed. I have a hunk of aluminum with a 1/2" hole and used it to tap the top of the bolt and remove the stub shaft. You can use a large socket for this. Keep gently tapping until the stub shaft is removed....go slowly and tap as gently as possible.
10. Stub shaft is out!
11. Here is a breakdown of what you are looking at.
As you can see, I had some rust on the bearing support. I cleaned this up with some fine sandpaper to aid in reinstalltion.
You can also see that the seal has been pushed to the left and is butted up against the crank sensor gear. This will happen during disassembly. Simply push the seal back against the bearing retainer with your fingers. You can see where it belongs in the pic below.
Here is what it looks like inside the engine.
Turns out I did not have to have the sled titled up. No oil anywhere. I tiled the sled back down slowly and to my surprise once it was level again no oil was leaking anywhere.
12. Here you can see I have sanded off the rust on the bearing housing.
13. Take some acetone and a small brush and clean the splines both on the stub shaft and in the engine. I used a clean rag and stuffed it into the crankcase to prevent any acetone from getting on into the engine. This will promote adhesion with the Loctite.
14. I have applied a thin coat of MotoSeal crankcase sealant (or you could use RTV sealant) to the outside surface of the block where the bearing retainer presses in. This should prevent any more water from getting in there and rusting. Added insurance, but optional step.
15. Fill the splines of the stub shaft with loctite. Only put the loctite on the stub shaft. Only fill about 3/4 of the way in. The loctite will get pushed back further during assembly, and you don't want it dripping everywhere in your engine!
**Note, I did add a bit more loctite after this picture was taken..it seems i was a little skimpy at first.
**The working time is roughly 5-10 mins using the 680 loctite. The working time for the motoseal I used is 30 minutes.
16. Slide the stub shaft back onto the crank (it can only go on in one direction, one spline is shorter, keeping the orientation). Once you have it pushed in far enough, you can then use the x4 10mm bolts to suck the bearing back into the crankcase. Tighten each bolt evenly to ensure it goes in straight.
17. Torque the x4 10mm bolts to spec (red circles). Torque the x2 12mm bolts to spec (yellow).
18. Lastly, I have gently bolted the clutch back on, and I turned the engine over a few revolutions using the wrench. What I have done in this pic is hung a weight off the wrench causing the clutch to put pressure in a clockwise direction on the crank. This way, when I am driving the snowmobile, the forces will be on the metal splines, but at idle, the Loctite is there to prevent the rattling.
I will be letting this sit for 2 days (EDIT: actually let it sit for 1week), before I start the sled up. The loctite 648 is cured in 24hours, but longer will ensure good adhesion between the splines.
That's it! Wash up and have a few beer....and most importantly next time your out riding and come to a stop....listen to the motor purring away and not the clutch!
Last edited:
yamaha1973
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2011
- Messages
- 1,288
- Location
- St. Peter Minnesota
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 Viper XTX SE
Thats pretty simple! Hope it works...
fxnytroxtx
Guest
Can't wait for this 2 day's to fly to your hear report. Because I hate that stupid rattle!
ViperTurboPete
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,068
- Age
- 57
- Location
- Sudbury, Ontario
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2015 Viper XTX LE MPI Turbo
2022 Expedition Extreme 850
Fingers crossed that it works! Excellent post!
Supa Dexta
Expert
Why did you choose to put pressure on it in that direction? Not that its a huge difference either way, just curious.
- Also, 3 cylinder, not 3 stroke.
- Also, 3 cylinder, not 3 stroke.
nitris223
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2012
- Messages
- 589
- Location
- Yorkton Saskatchewan
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- Yamaha Nytro MTX
Has this been done before to know that it will solve the rattle. Looks simple enough to do. Did your splines show any amount of wear.
Sportsterdanne
TY 4 Stroke Guru
When the clutch grabs the belt the splines will be "grabbing" each other in that direction, if you have a small play and loctite the splines in the other direction there is a possibility to break the loctite bond, atleast in theory.
Supa Dexta said:
sgilbert
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I have done something similar with splines before. single strands of copper. not sure I would dare inside the motor
well keep us posted seems like it should work. what about removal?
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
Thanks Guys, You rock! Talk about a global solution! And Beenba, aesome step by step. Hopefully Mr Sled will post this as a sticky.
This will be a huge improvement. I think the gap is so small in there that the loctite will easily fill it and judging by the specs on the stuff, its so strong its not ever likely to break free unless you want to by heating beyond 250F....and if it does rattle, you'll know it.
Again, great job.
Back on the list!
OTM
This will be a huge improvement. I think the gap is so small in there that the loctite will easily fill it and judging by the specs on the stuff, its so strong its not ever likely to break free unless you want to by heating beyond 250F....and if it does rattle, you'll know it.
Again, great job.
Back on the list!
OTM
Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Stickying or adding this to the DIY sounds like a great idea! Never thought of that, but hopefully it will help others find it easier/quicker.
It really is an easy job, only took about 1 hour with the tools required.
For anyone wondering with removal, the loctite needs to be heated to 250degC. My theory is, if this shaft ever needs removed again your crank is likely coming out and the engine is being torn apart. It might also be possible to remove the outer bearing and race to get heat in there.
The loctite 640 is good for 3000psi when cured on steel/steel components. You can do a quick google search and the spec sheet PDF will pop up. Tarzan has mentioned he has filled his splines with a similar bearing retaining compound, and has rode a year or 2 with no problems/rattle. He is also making 300hp, so I have no worries with my sled mostly stock.
Sportsterdanne is exactly right in what I was thinking about loading the clutch during curing. It may not make a difference at all, but it theory it may help alleviating the stress seen by the loctite.
My splines showed no wear at all. My sled has 7400km and rattled bad, but no wear!
I will report back Wednesday night and let everyone know once I have started the sled up, but I have no worries.
It really is an easy job, only took about 1 hour with the tools required.
For anyone wondering with removal, the loctite needs to be heated to 250degC. My theory is, if this shaft ever needs removed again your crank is likely coming out and the engine is being torn apart. It might also be possible to remove the outer bearing and race to get heat in there.
The loctite 640 is good for 3000psi when cured on steel/steel components. You can do a quick google search and the spec sheet PDF will pop up. Tarzan has mentioned he has filled his splines with a similar bearing retaining compound, and has rode a year or 2 with no problems/rattle. He is also making 300hp, so I have no worries with my sled mostly stock.
Sportsterdanne is exactly right in what I was thinking about loading the clutch during curing. It may not make a difference at all, but it theory it may help alleviating the stress seen by the loctite.
My splines showed no wear at all. My sled has 7400km and rattled bad, but no wear!
I will report back Wednesday night and let everyone know once I have started the sled up, but I have no worries.
fxnytroxtx
Guest
Just ordered some wurth bearing retainer from wurthusa 35 oz bottle for $13.00 + tax and shipping, but they sell them in minimum quantity of 3 so i will have a lot of anti rattle chemical 
fxnytroxtx
Guest
And it's good for 4000 psi
canoehead
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,136
- Location
- NE, Alberta
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2014 XF9000, 2016 Viper XTX
I like the idea but did you loctite the (6) bolts holding the stub shaft? I always like the blue for bolts like that.
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
How long will it last...hummmmm
