DenaliDoo
Newbie
Found out that stabbing was the rails wanting to "stab" into the track. But I am still a bit confused as I would think that dropping the angle of attack would lessen the chance of this happening. Looking at the machine itself makes me think the same. What am I missing on how this happens?
karl
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2007
- Messages
- 228
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2015 Phazer XTX
Stabbing is the front tips of the rails poking through the track openings. The more distance you have between the drivers and the rail tips or the looser the track is the more chance of the track following the drivers and creating a bit of a inverted wave that tries stuff the rail tips through the track windows. Anti stab kits are a set of wheels that go right at the rail tips to redirect the track. search anti stab kits on the web and I am sure you will find a picture.
DenaliDoo
Newbie
karl said:
Now that makes sense! Even to me
Thanks for the techsplanation.
TreewellDweller
Veteran
Sorry that I haven't answered any questions, lately. I just got my computer back from the PC Doctor. I got a virus and it got wiped out. Been out of it for 4-5 days. What a pain.
It looks like you got some answers on what "stabbing" is. It can happen on stock sleds if you hit a rock or stump just right in front or on the front of the rear suspension. It will do just as was mentioned and push the track up into the tunnel and the rails will stab through the driver holes of the track. This happened to me on a stock M7 while climbing out of a bowl and I hit a 4" stump.
While under acceleration the front of the track is forced down toward the snow/ground and the front limiter straps will do just that-limit how far it will go down. To adjust that to limit the distance and then keep the track tight enough so it doesn't ratchet on the drivers should keep it from stabbing under normal conditions.
I had an opportunity to jump on a stock MTX Phazer, today, and the ski pressure is the same or a bit more than what mine is, now. I have only had it out twice since the relocation of the skid and 151" track. I haven't noticed any issues or problems. I did drop the front of the skid about 1" to eliminate some ski pressure and it seemed to work. Hopefully these pictures will attach.
It looks like you got some answers on what "stabbing" is. It can happen on stock sleds if you hit a rock or stump just right in front or on the front of the rear suspension. It will do just as was mentioned and push the track up into the tunnel and the rails will stab through the driver holes of the track. This happened to me on a stock M7 while climbing out of a bowl and I hit a 4" stump.
While under acceleration the front of the track is forced down toward the snow/ground and the front limiter straps will do just that-limit how far it will go down. To adjust that to limit the distance and then keep the track tight enough so it doesn't ratchet on the drivers should keep it from stabbing under normal conditions.
I had an opportunity to jump on a stock MTX Phazer, today, and the ski pressure is the same or a bit more than what mine is, now. I have only had it out twice since the relocation of the skid and 151" track. I haven't noticed any issues or problems. I did drop the front of the skid about 1" to eliminate some ski pressure and it seemed to work. Hopefully these pictures will attach.
Attachments
TreewellDweller
Veteran
151" TRACK WITHOUT EXTENSIONS
Took this out for about a 40 mile trip with about 20 miles on the trail and the rest boondocking. The only sleds in the group that were doing better than me were 800s with 151" or longer tracks. I didn't have a lot of speed but it seemed to float way better than it used to. I just have to keep reminding myself that it is only 500cc. Going down the trail was great. Just the right amount of ski pressure, in my opinion. So far, can not find any ill-effect issues with the rear skid relocation project. Just thought I would give an update.
Took this out for about a 40 mile trip with about 20 miles on the trail and the rest boondocking. The only sleds in the group that were doing better than me were 800s with 151" or longer tracks. I didn't have a lot of speed but it seemed to float way better than it used to. I just have to keep reminding myself that it is only 500cc. Going down the trail was great. Just the right amount of ski pressure, in my opinion. So far, can not find any ill-effect issues with the rear skid relocation project. Just thought I would give an update.
murph
Extreme
Thanks for the update.
I am installing a Mtn Tamer in the GF Phazer. Thinking of doing the relocation at the same time.
What differences did you notice with the two front mounting positions: the 3 inch back upper hole vs the three inch back lower hole?
Murph
I am installing a Mtn Tamer in the GF Phazer. Thinking of doing the relocation at the same time.
What differences did you notice with the two front mounting positions: the 3 inch back upper hole vs the three inch back lower hole?
Murph
200smk
Extreme
Any of you guys that are doing setbacks thinking about putting on the Anti-stab??
murph
Extreme
I run anti stab on everything, including my Nytro with a Mtn Tamer skid and stock setback position.
$90 is cheap insurance versus a stabbed track which means downtime, plus track replacement costs, and usually rail replacement.
$90 is cheap insurance versus a stabbed track which means downtime, plus track replacement costs, and usually rail replacement.
TreewellDweller
Veteran
151" TRACK WITHOUT EXTENSIONS
I believe the lower hole on the front is an improvement, for myself. I feel that the upper hole did not increase the ski pressure from the stock set-up, but the lower hole did lessen the ski pressure, which is an improvement in my opinion. I compared this to a stock mountain Phazer at the local Yamaha shop. They let me ride one in their lot for a bit to make a comparison. When I rode mine on the trail the other day it worked quite well. With some sleds, the lighter ski pressure makes them dart around on the groomed trail, but mine seemed to stick pretty well.
Enjoy!
I believe the lower hole on the front is an improvement, for myself. I feel that the upper hole did not increase the ski pressure from the stock set-up, but the lower hole did lessen the ski pressure, which is an improvement in my opinion. I compared this to a stock mountain Phazer at the local Yamaha shop. They let me ride one in their lot for a bit to make a comparison. When I rode mine on the trail the other day it worked quite well. With some sleds, the lighter ski pressure makes them dart around on the groomed trail, but mine seemed to stick pretty well.
Enjoy!
murph
Extreme
In the process of doing my GF's now
3.0" pitch drivers, 153" Nytro track, anti stab kit
Building the brackets as soon as I stop typing this.....
Hopefully get it out tomorrow
3.0" pitch drivers, 153" Nytro track, anti stab kit
Building the brackets as soon as I stop typing this.....
Hopefully get it out tomorrow
murph
Extreme
Made the changes to the Phazer:
Nytro drivers
cut-down Nytro track
anti-stab kit
Home built rear brackets (1/8" aluminum plate)
Mtn Tamer
4.5" setback
Rode it in heavy pow, high moisture content:
Observations:
1. Seemed to lose the "tippy-ness"--for us this was a negative--GF loved the tippyness and "floating" feeling the skis had under acceleration when the Phazer was stock (probably due to the short track setback)
2. slow to initiate roll in
Rode it back to back with a bone stock Phazer.
Thinking ski pressure is too high.
Not enough rear weight transfer under acceleration
Now thinking I'll drop the front mount hole 1" to decrease ski pressure
Also thinking I'll raise the mount hole in the rear bracket (stock Phazer had a much tighter clearance from track to muffler) I have plenty of bracket material to work with
When lowering the front hole, I may be able to reduce the setback-- if this is case, I will reduce the setback.
Mtn Tamer comes with smaller upper idler wheels, thinking of putting larger stock upper idler wheels back in (after changing bearings)-- should be able to reduce the setback after that also.
Keep you posted with the results.
Nytro drivers
cut-down Nytro track
anti-stab kit
Home built rear brackets (1/8" aluminum plate)
Mtn Tamer
4.5" setback
Rode it in heavy pow, high moisture content:
Observations:
1. Seemed to lose the "tippy-ness"--for us this was a negative--GF loved the tippyness and "floating" feeling the skis had under acceleration when the Phazer was stock (probably due to the short track setback)
2. slow to initiate roll in
Rode it back to back with a bone stock Phazer.
Thinking ski pressure is too high.
Not enough rear weight transfer under acceleration
Now thinking I'll drop the front mount hole 1" to decrease ski pressure
Also thinking I'll raise the mount hole in the rear bracket (stock Phazer had a much tighter clearance from track to muffler) I have plenty of bracket material to work with
When lowering the front hole, I may be able to reduce the setback-- if this is case, I will reduce the setback.
Mtn Tamer comes with smaller upper idler wheels, thinking of putting larger stock upper idler wheels back in (after changing bearings)-- should be able to reduce the setback after that also.
Keep you posted with the results.
boondoggle
Extreme
Treedweller, very informative, helpful post and good pictures. Thanks. How is the template for the extension bracket coming?
One question. How does lowering the front mount decrease ski pressure? It seems to me that lowering the front of the rear suspension would tip more weight to the front of the sled, especially after it's been moved back three inches. Perhaps the front mount is still far enough forward so that it actually picks up the front of the sled when you lower it?
Murph, are you done setting up your girlfriends sled yet? How is it working?
Some of you guys have been running this setback skid/longer track for a while. How is everything holding up? 80 hp turning the longer tracks alright? Any negatives showing up?
One question. How does lowering the front mount decrease ski pressure? It seems to me that lowering the front of the rear suspension would tip more weight to the front of the sled, especially after it's been moved back three inches. Perhaps the front mount is still far enough forward so that it actually picks up the front of the sled when you lower it?
Murph, are you done setting up your girlfriends sled yet? How is it working?
Some of you guys have been running this setback skid/longer track for a while. How is everything holding up? 80 hp turning the longer tracks alright? Any negatives showing up?
boondoggle
Extreme
I mean treewelldweller.
TreewellDweller
Veteran
Dropping front bolt of rear suspension
It seemed to work pretty well. If you drop/lower the front mounting bolt of the rear skid, it will apply a bit more pressure of the skid to the ground and in turn will raise the front of the machine creating less ski pressure. You could do the same thing by raising or going higher with the rear mounting bolt of the skid. This would again raise the front of the machine creating less ski pressure. I opted for changing the front to create as much room in the tunnel for snow, paddles, debris, you name it. Hope this answers your questions. I have sent you a pm with the template.
good luck!
It seemed to work pretty well. If you drop/lower the front mounting bolt of the rear skid, it will apply a bit more pressure of the skid to the ground and in turn will raise the front of the machine creating less ski pressure. You could do the same thing by raising or going higher with the rear mounting bolt of the skid. This would again raise the front of the machine creating less ski pressure. I opted for changing the front to create as much room in the tunnel for snow, paddles, debris, you name it. Hope this answers your questions. I have sent you a pm with the template.
good luck!
boondoggle
Extreme
Got it. Thanks much.
Similar threads
