Sidewinder Clutching experience

[yamahahaapex]

right now, its an 18 xtx stock clutching. Daltons coming from Hurricane and I have a black orange Dalton secondary spring with TPI primary rollers ready to install to run at 270hp. I haven't actually peeled the clutch apart yet until the kit arrives to confirm what is in there and Im sure most of you know what is there but I did acquire a blue/black Yamaha primary spring and a Dalton orange secondary spring to test with. At the very least I was told to change up the secondary spring from stock to Dalton orange and wrap at 70'. Leaving the primary spring stock has been said to be ok but without actually being able to test I cant prove otherwise but told that the black/blue spring has the same finish as stock and will have my engagement much lower which is exactly what I need.

I thank you guys for your continued insight on this.

 

[yamahahaapex]

stock belt as well. I believe 8JP. Hopefully get the parts by the weekend and start tearing into it. Havent touched a thing on it for the past 2 years. Did multiple combos with previous apexs from 2007-2011

 

[Fleecer]

Knapp’s figures on combined wrap and side pressure. If both springs were wrapped the same amount the Dalton B/O would more than likely shift out faster throughout the entire range. Stock yellow has more rate and would react like the B/O with an additional 20 degrees of wrap at full shift.
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Fleece,
I actually think the B/O at comparable wraps would tend to slip easier throughout the shift range with a 35 helix. Pre-tension and wrap tension combine themselves and basically achieve the same thing, side pressure. Difference being pre-tension always stays the same regardless of helix angle and wrap tension lessens as helix angle increases.
A good experiment would be to try them at the same wrap and see how they react.

Clutch,
Thanks for sharing, evidently the belt heat must be from slippage. At any rate, Yamaha yellow secondary at 60 is faster than b/o at 60 or 70.

The extra tension at fullshiift when using the yellow yields more rpm and faster speeds. With the b/o I cant even break into the 140s, hence it now sits in the toolbox. Just my opinion....

But now Justinator has really got me thinking. I could never get that pink to work in anything and have been throwing it in the trash for years. I can certainly use an extra 4 mph.

 

[justinator]

Clutch,
Thanks for sharing, evidently the belt heat must be from slippage. At any rate, Yamaha yellow secondary at 60 is faster than b/o at 60 or 70.

The extra tension at fullshiift when using the yellow yields more rpm and faster speeds. With the b/o I cant even break into the 140s, hence it now sits in the toolbox. Just my opinion....

But now Justinator has really got me thinking. I could never get that pink to work in anything and have been throwing it in the trash for years. I can certainly use an extra 4 mph.

When I called you to share my findings that day, I expected youd be out testing the next morning to see if it would work for you. We are in november and your still "thinking". Kinda dissapointed in you to be honest haha

 

[Fast]

Clutch,
Thanks for sharing, evidently the belt heat must be from slippage. At any rate, Yamaha yellow secondary at 60 is faster than b/o at 60 or 70.

The extra tension at fullshiift when using the yellow yields more rpm and faster speeds. With the b/o I cant even break into the 140s, hence it now sits in the toolbox. Just my opinion....

But now Justinator has really got me thinking. I could never get that pink to work in anything and have been throwing it in the trash for years. I can certainly use an extra 4 mph.

With the pink secondary spring in a 2019 stock srx at 6-1 it would pull 109 on gps when wrapped at 6-2 it would pull 115 on gps and had full rpm in any conditions the dalton b/o would only pull 105 on gps and lost around 700rpm, thats with the 1.5" storm 150 track

 

[SideHogger]

I just completed my fall inspection of my clutches after a full season of long trip, high speed trail riding, ice fishing, snow drag racing and everything still looks good.
I like to "march to my own drummer" so my 2019 X-TX LE Winder isn't set up like most.
I never ran my Winder stock as I purchased it in the Spring of 2019 and over the summer I installed a Hurricane tune bundle and changed the stock clutching from zero miles . I have a brand new Apex clutch that I was planning on installing on the Winder, because of all the issues I read about, but so far I have not found a reason to install it.

Here's my approach to my clutching from zero miles.

-stock secondary with Dalton helix and spring and TPI rollers
-I fully float my secondary as I have done on all my sleds since the 70s.
-as the secondary is floating I installed an internal sheave spacer for proper belt deflection
-I use the trusty inexpensive 8DN belt as I have never had an issue with them even on the 300++ S/C Apex I had. I ran the same 8DN belt all last year for 2000++ miles
-stock Sidewinder primary with Dalton weights and spring, TPI rollers and 911 cover, rollers still in very good shape after over 2000 tuned miles, clutch looks like new with NO cracking, pins are secured from floating to reduce noise
-Hurricane noise reduction stub shaft with no reliability issues and much quieter then stock
-the X-TXs are geared pretty low and run 3 x 8 tooth drivers so I geared the sled up from the stock gearing so the clutches probably would never bottom out in their travel by fully shifting out...I have seen 118mph on the GPS

I have a Razor belt temp gage and belt temps have never been an issue.
The sled is a blast to trail ride and very competitive in drag racing and I couldn't be happier although I will install a new 8DN belt for this season as over 2000 miles is enough for any belt...especially on a 300hp sled!

Works for me!

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Question, is a 2009 Venture RS primary the same as a Apex clutch? According to Babbitt's website it is but want to double check with all you guys that know this stuff!

 

[sideshowBob]

Question, is a 2009 Venture RS primary the same as a Apex clutch? According to Babbitt's website it is but want to double check with all you guys that know this stuff!

The bare clutch will be the same as the Apex clutch but the weights,spring,rollers vary.

 

[SideHogger]

The bare clutch will be the same as the Apex clutch but the weights,spring,rollers vary.

Thanks for response but I was wrong. ( As usual ) Part numbers are different for Apex and Venture RS.

 

[ClutchMaster]

With the pink secondary spring in a 2019 stock srx at 6-1 it would pull 109 on gps when wrapped at 6-2 it would pull 115 on gps and had full rpm in any conditions the dalton b/o would only pull 105 on gps and lost around 700rpm, thats with the 1.5" storm 150 track

Rpm change on the big end? A weaker secondary spring might require some weight removal in the primary.

 

[Fast]

Rpm change on the big end? A weaker secondary spring might require some weight removal in the primary.

It really doesn't make sense the weaker secondary pink spring 50/88 runs perfect rpm in all conditions and the stiffer b/o 56/91 needs less weight in the primary just to pull full rpm thats why i thought maybe the dalton black blue would work with this combination

 

[ClutchMaster]

It really doesn't make sense the weaker secondary pink spring 50/88 runs perfect rpm in all conditions and the stiffer b/o 56/91 needs less weight in the primary just to pull full rpm thats why i thought maybe the dalton black blue would work with this combination

Well the Pink has more torsion and less pretension, could be that. This is exactly why testing is paramount.

 

[SideHogger]

Anyone know the rate of Thunder Products orange secondary spring?

 

[Fleecer]

Anyone know the rate of Thunder Products orange secondary spring?

35kg/147kg

 

[Fleecer]

With the pink secondary spring in a 2019 stock srx at 6-1 it would pull 109 on gps when wrapped at 6-2 it would pull 115 on gps and had full rpm in any conditions the dalton b/o would only pull 105 on gps and lost around 700rpm, thats with the 1.5" storm 150 track

What rpm were you turning at 6-2 with the pink?

Are you still running stock 35/39? I think the Yamaha yellow secondary works better with that reverse cam. Stiffer at full shift to keep rpm up when it hits the 39. JMO....

 

[SideHogger]

35kg/147kg

Secondary spring rate???? I think this might be primary rates, Fleecer! Also, why did Dalton change the black orange secondary? I have the old, what is the difference to new and why?