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Sidewinder with Electrical gremlin


WinderFab

TY 4 Stroke God
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
1,760
Age
45
Location
Woodbridge, ON
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
2020 Sidewinder Ltx GT
I had something similar to what you are experiencing, back in late 21 when doing the rov delete on my 20 SW after taping up the rov wires and putting sled back together turn the key and had no dash but heard the fuel pump turn on, turned out the fuse was blown even though I didn’t do anything to cause that to blow, as I put the new fuse in it blew immediately, okay i thought let me check the rov wires again, all good, put another fuse in and heard it pop again, wtf.. 3 blown fuses in a few minutes, put another fuse in and it’s been good ever since then, about 6k since it happened and never had that happen again.. Not sure why but very odd to say the least..
 

earthling

Lifetime Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
1,125
Location
Ontario
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
2021 SRX
2006 ATTAK
I had something similar to what you are experiencing, back in late 21 when doing the rov delete on my 20 SW after taping up the rov wires and putting sled back together turn the key and had no dash but heard the fuel pump turn on, turned out the fuse was blown even though I didn’t do anything to cause that to blow, as I put the new fuse in it blew immediately, okay i thought let me check the rov wires again, all good, put another fuse in and heard it pop again, wtf.. 3 blown fuses in a few minutes, put another fuse in and it’s been good ever since then, about 6k since it happened and never had that happen again.. Not sure why but very odd to say the least..

Did you disconnect the reverse actuator by chance?
 

earthling

Lifetime Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
1,125
Location
Ontario
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
2021 SRX
2006 ATTAK
Honestly can’t remember if I did or not. How would that cause the fuse to blow ?

Not sure but the whole forward/reverse system is implemented without a lot of protection. (shrug) just curious if there is any correlation since it is in the general area.
 

WinderFab

TY 4 Stroke God
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
1,760
Age
45
Location
Woodbridge, ON
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
2020 Sidewinder Ltx GT
The heated rov is tucked under the steering post and isn’t easy to get at, it’s been over 2 years and my memory can’t remember what exactly I took apart to get at it lol.. I didn’t do anything between putting the fuses that blew and the 4th that has been good since then.. had me in aw on how or what is happening.
 

earthling

Lifetime Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
1,125
Location
Ontario
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
2021 SRX
2006 ATTAK
Here is a hypothesis of what happened. The power wire (the one carrying regulated voltage at 14.7v ) is shared by:

battery (30amp) (problem)
ign (15amp) (problem)
Shift(25amp) (problem)
fuel pump (15 amp)
isc (15amp)
tail light (20amp)

The relays are rated for 15.6v (133% of 12v). They can only handle 35a in NC state and 20a in NO. Its the 20a NO that's the problem since a few of those relays operate in both modes. My guess is that the relays were arcing internally due to the voltage regulator and they can even weld themselves together given enough time. They can also be intermittent or go back to operating normal(ish). I would swap all the relays and all the fuses.

Sealed versions of the relays are the Song Chuan relays below, they are cheap from an electrical supplier. I think the reverse relay power draw is a red herring or just part of the above problem, swapping it should fix it. I had the shift fwd relay out for some reason when I took this.

4 pin = Song Chuan 303-1A-S-R1 replaces Yamaha 8MS-H2189-00
4 pin relays can be installed text up or text down but should be up
5 pin = Song Chuan 301-1C-S-R1 replaces Yamaha 8MS-H2185-00
5 Pin relays only fit one way, upside down (text down)

1674703045901.png


I should add that the HFV11/12-HS-R relay that Yamaha is using in the 21 (no idea what comes in the other sleds) *IS* a sealed relay.
 
Last edited:

Blownhard

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
45
Location
Niagara Falls
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
Nytro xtx
Sidewinder ltx-le
Here is a hypothesis of what happened. The power wire (the one carrying regulated voltage at 14.7v ) is shared by:

battery (30amp) (problem)
ign (15amp) (problem)
Shift(25amp) (problem)
fuel pump (15 amp)
isc (15amp)
tail light (20amp)

The relays are rated for 15.6v (133% of 12v). They can only handle 35a in NC state and 20a in NO. Its the 20a NO that's the problem since a few of those relays operate in both modes. My guess is that the relays were arcing internally due to the voltage regulator and they can even weld themselves together given enough time. They can also be intermittent or go back to operating normal(ish). I would swap all the relays and all the fuses.

Sealed versions of the relays are the Song Chuan relays below, they are cheap from an electrical supplier. I think the reverse relay power draw is a red herring or just part of the above problem, swapping it should fix it. I had the shift fwd relay out for some reason when I took this.

4 pin = Song Chuan 303-1AH-S-R1 replaces Yamaha 8MS-H2189-00
4 pin relays can be installed text up or text down but should be up
5 pin = Song Chuan 301-1C-S-R1 replaces Yamaha 8MS-H2185-00
5 Pin relays only fit one way, upside down (text down)

View attachment 171088
Here is a hypothesis of what happened. The power wire (the one carrying regulated voltage at 14.7v ) is shared by:

battery (30amp) (problem)
ign (15amp) (problem)
Shift(25amp) (problem)
fuel pump (15 amp)
isc (15amp)
tail light (20amp)

The relays are rated for 15.6v (133% of 12v). They can only handle 35a in NC state and 20a in NO. Its the 20a NO that's the problem since a few of those relays operate in both modes. My guess is that the relays were arcing internally due to the voltage regulator and they can even weld themselves together given enough time. They can also be intermittent or go back to operating normal(ish). I would swap all the relays and all the fuses.

Sealed versions of the relays are the Song Chuan relays below, they are cheap from an electrical supplier. I think the reverse relay power draw is a red herring or just part of the above problem, swapping it should fix it. I had the shift fwd relay out for some reason when I took this.

4 pin = Song Chuan 303-1AH-S-R1 replaces Yamaha 8MS-H2189-00
4 pin relays can be installed text up or text down but should be up
5 pin = Song Chuan 301-1C-S-R1 replaces Yamaha 8MS-H2185-00
5 Pin relays only fit one way, upside down (text down)

View attachment 171088
 

Blownhard

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
45
Location
Niagara Falls
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
Nytro xtx
Sidewinder ltx-le
Looking for a service manual with electrical diagram on a 2019 sidewinder Ltd-le
 

jonlafon1

Lifetime Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Messages
3,703
Age
48
Location
Mount Morris, WI. Chaney Lake, Upper MI eh!
Country
USA
Snowmobile
2022 Sidewinder LTX_SE

2021 Arctic Cat 8000

2017 Sidewinder LTX-SE. 11750 miles (SOLD)
I know this goes without saying. But I have seen loose battery terminals cause all kinds of issues like you describe. Guessing you checked them?
 

Blownhard

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
45
Location
Niagara Falls
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
Nytro xtx
Sidewinder ltx-le
I know this goes without saying. But I have seen loose battery terminals cause all kinds of issues like you describe. Guessing you checked them?
We’ve tested disassembled reassembled changed meters both being Fluke brands
and continue to search for the illusive electrical issue. Its intermittent and presently the sled is running fine but has left me stranded last two outings. Battery connection are tight.
 

Blownhard

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
45
Location
Niagara Falls
Country
Canada
Snowmobile
Nytro xtx
Sidewinder ltx-le
you are a vip member, just msg one of the moderators.
Good morning earthling
I’ve received a service manual but unable to read the print.

Are you familiar with what accessories run off the main 30 amp fuse and the 15 amp ignition fuse ?
 

sideshowBob

Lifetime Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,525
Location
North West Ontario
A friend of mine had a low mileage mint 2019 Tcat that kept draining batteries, he boosted it once to get home with a dead battery and killed the voltage regulator. After he swapped in a new battery and voltage regulator the problem persisted, if he didnt disconnect the battery when it sat it would drain it in a couple days. After a year of trouble shooting with no luck he finally got rid of the sled. The new owner was well aware of the issues and I never heard if it ever got sorted out.
 


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