Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
I did not want to muck up the other oil thread, which IMHO should be made a sticky.
Back in 96-97 when the BMW 4 valve horizontally opposed twin cylinder Motorcycles came out, oil consumption was a hot topic for over a year and a half. Some ate oil like crazy and others barely a few t spoons full between 2500 Mile oil changes. The forum I am speaking of is IBMWR (internet BMW riders)
Then finally people figured out that if you waited 15 minutes or more and never filled above the 1/2 way point of the sight glass the oil usage stopped.
What was happening is that the guys that did not wait for the oil to go back to the pan, and the guys that filled above the center of the sight glass were actually overfilling.
Because of the excess in the pan, some was being forced out the breather, others felt that the excess was being splashed up the cylinder walls. I am not so sure about that, but one thing for sure is that once people used the correct method for checking, the oil consumption complaints stopped.
I wonder if something like that could be happening here. Yes these are dry sumps but you still have an oil pan although it is shallower. And you still have oil pooled up in the heads.
Just a thought that it might be interesting to compare how people check their oil. also another thing is that Yamaha is one of the best engine builders in the world. I have a hard time believing that more than 1 out of a thousand is going to go through a qt in 500mi
Back in 96-97 when the BMW 4 valve horizontally opposed twin cylinder Motorcycles came out, oil consumption was a hot topic for over a year and a half. Some ate oil like crazy and others barely a few t spoons full between 2500 Mile oil changes. The forum I am speaking of is IBMWR (internet BMW riders)
Then finally people figured out that if you waited 15 minutes or more and never filled above the 1/2 way point of the sight glass the oil usage stopped.
What was happening is that the guys that did not wait for the oil to go back to the pan, and the guys that filled above the center of the sight glass were actually overfilling.
Because of the excess in the pan, some was being forced out the breather, others felt that the excess was being splashed up the cylinder walls. I am not so sure about that, but one thing for sure is that once people used the correct method for checking, the oil consumption complaints stopped.
I wonder if something like that could be happening here. Yes these are dry sumps but you still have an oil pan although it is shallower. And you still have oil pooled up in the heads.
Just a thought that it might be interesting to compare how people check their oil. also another thing is that Yamaha is one of the best engine builders in the world. I have a hard time believing that more than 1 out of a thousand is going to go through a qt in 500mi
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Another example,
I was lucky enough to have a 91 911 Carrera 2. It was dry sump also and it was the first car I ever saw where you checked the oil while it was running. After joining a Porsche club, some of the old folklore was that Porsche had a hell of a time with the dry sump and owners over filling and doing engine damage. That was why they devised a method of checking it while running and even then many people got it wrong.
This is an example of what I am talking about.
http://www.performance2and4.co.uk/oil_1_n.htm
I was lucky enough to have a 91 911 Carrera 2. It was dry sump also and it was the first car I ever saw where you checked the oil while it was running. After joining a Porsche club, some of the old folklore was that Porsche had a hell of a time with the dry sump and owners over filling and doing engine damage. That was why they devised a method of checking it while running and even then many people got it wrong.
This is an example of what I am talking about.
http://www.performance2and4.co.uk/oil_1_n.htm
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
I usually check the oil by waiting for the light to come on. Kinda blows that theory out of the water, doesn't it?
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
LazyBastard said:
Hhhmmm. Never thought of that way. That is with the motor running, is that correct? That is how Porshe does it with the 911, not with the light, but checking it while it is running and with the oil hot. If I remember, you dont really use any oil at all except you use a little with a lot of high speed running?? With your method I would say that your not very likely to over fill and your oil consumption is less than some of the others.
No a theory like this cant be proven either way with a single pat answer. Only over the long haul and with a number of people involved. whether that will happen on this particular forum remains to be seen LOL
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I run mine until the light comes on also. And even then, sometimes I have to ride 50-100 miles before I'm able to add oil, so that means I might have to add 1/2 qt. just to get the light off, which still puts the level below the LOW point on the dipstick. I usually fill to 1/2 way between LOW and full, sometimes all the way to full, just so I have a little further I can go before the light comes on. So I guess LB and I use the same technique.
Jim
Jim
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Tork said:
Quite correct, the light will not come on until the motor is running. Whenever it has come on, it has always been WHILE running a lake at high speed.
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Mine uses the most while trail riding with my buddys, but with them and the trails here, thats long periods of 70-80+ mph. I do still use a fair amount while riding with my wife at slow speeds, averaging 40-50 mph. Just for comparison...
Jim
Jim
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Thx guys, so both using the same method. I am thinking that this method would not lead to overfilling.
Jim, how long does it take you to use a quart??
LB, from the other thread. You did not use any until 3K Miles??
And with slower running (non lake) you do or do not use oil?
If you guys could put a number on your usage, we could begin to see if ther is any merit to this or not.
Mike
Jim, how long does it take you to use a quart??
LB, from the other thread. You did not use any until 3K Miles??
And with slower running (non lake) you do or do not use oil?
If you guys could put a number on your usage, we could begin to see if ther is any merit to this or not.
Mike
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
During medium to hard trail riding with my buddies, I use 1 quart in 200-300 miles. I can't give exact numbers during easy riding, such as with my wife, because she doesn't do as many miles as me and my friends do, but I would estimate 1 qt. in around 400-500 miles. Around half way through last season tshelver and I did a run from Milan, NH to Bosebuck Cabins, then down to town for fuel and back to Milan. I think we did around 240-260 miles, and my oil was full before we left. My low oil light was on for the last 40+ miles of the trip on the way home. On that trip we rode medium-hard on the way out, and hard on the way back.
Jim
Jim
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
My oil usage is limited strictly to end-of-season lake running. Observed this two years in a row. No oil consumption at all until 3k miles, then ran up and down the lake holding wide and used a bit. Then the next year, absolutely not a drop of oil consumption until end of March when back to the lake running.
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Ok LB I would rate your oil consumption at minimal/ moderate.
But Jim here, Jeez that is alot.
I dunno. I am a motorcycle guy too and I have been checking those forums (and doing some google searches) as well specifically the R1 which is essentially your motor.
I think that on the motorcycle side if that motor was using very much oil at all people would be complaining about it.
So what is different? Guys like Jim are using alot. If compression is OK, then what is it doing going out the breather, something to do with the dry sump?? Has to be an answer somewhere.
But Jim here, Jeez that is alot.
I dunno. I am a motorcycle guy too and I have been checking those forums (and doing some google searches) as well specifically the R1 which is essentially your motor.
I think that on the motorcycle side if that motor was using very much oil at all people would be complaining about it.
So what is different? Guys like Jim are using alot. If compression is OK, then what is it doing going out the breather, something to do with the dry sump?? Has to be an answer somewhere.
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I have a related question about this problem. My main effort is to fix the problem permanently, but I have been given some suggestions to try. One of these is Seafoam. I'm not sold on the product, and I don't know if I really believe in it (I'm a skeptical person by nature), but I'm willing to try it. Unfortunately when I was talking to my dealer about the oil problem, he said I shouldn't use anything which hasn't been reccomended by Yamaha. I know thats just dealer B.S., but I was thinking about the possibility of Yamaha doing something about my engine. I know its off warranty, so the chances of that happening are about zero, but there is the ever so slight possibility. So...if I were to run some seafoam through, is there any chance that Yamaha could notice that I had done that and give me crap about it? I'm also planning to buy some of the ring-free or whatever it is that Yamaha sells to add to the fuel. I just want to try anything I can to solve this. The big problem I see with having a dealer do something is that I probably won't see my sled for half the riding season if it goes in for engine work or a diagnostic teardown. Hell, it took my last dealer over a month to get a seat on my sled...I'd hate to see how long it would take to pull apart an engine. The good thing is that the dealer I'm going to now is far more professional than my old one.
Jim
Jim
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
If you're worried about yamaha complaining about seafoam, use yamaha ringfree - same stuff. They can't complain about their own product.
Tom-RX1
Expert
I think the oil consumpsion is due to carbon in the rings . a number of guys on here have used the sea foam or the ring free I use my friction guard witch cleans the rings and the oil consumpion stopped . this tells me that oil use is from carboned rings .
Tom-RX1
Tom-RX1
Indy
TY 4 Stroke God
I've posted this before, I used one full quart last season, actually a half of a quart twice. Both times it was when I towed another sled back in. The light came on both times at the end of the tow. Both tow ins were at least 20+ miles. That is the only time I used a drop. 3200 miles last season by the way.
