Supertrax article-Whats everyone think

[Grimm]

Back to Supertrax' article, I feel that Yamaha wasn't included was due to poor sales overall, which may be due to Yamaha's lack of new iron. Nothing really new to attract more buyers.

Before picking up my Apex back in the spring, I was really interested in the Procross sleds, but due to a plethora of issues with their sleds, I stayed clear as I don't think they'd be capable of resolving all the issues for the 2012-2013 season. Looking at Skidoo, I could not find a deal on a 1200 that I was willing to pay...great sleds though. Polaris, not a big enough 4 stroke engine in the lineup, therefore not even considered.

In the end, bought the Apex heavily discounted by $5500, couldn't pass that up and I'm happy with it.

Yamaha really has to bring out something special to ring in sales...too stale of a lineup. They really need to wake up.

 

[KnappAttack]

Back to Supertrax' article, I feel that Yamaha wasn't included was due to poor sales overall, which may be due to Yamaha's lack of new iron. Nothing really new to attract more buyers.

Before picking up my Apex back in the spring, I was really interested in the Procross sleds, but due to a plethora of issues with their sleds, I stayed clear as I don't think they'd be capable of resolving all the issues for the 2012-2013 season. Looking at Skidoo, I could not find a deal on a 1200 that I was willing to pay...great sleds though. Polaris, not a big enough 4 stroke engine in the lineup, therefore not even considered.

In the end, bought the Apex heavily discounted by $5500, couldn't pass that up and I'm happy with it.

Yamaha really has to bring out something special to ring in sales...too stale of a lineup. They really need to wake up.

All true, but not only do they need to bring some new iron, they need to improve drastically in the ride, handling and weight department. Hope they have some young aggressive engineers burning the midnight oil! They have a lot of work to do, its not just good enough anymore to have the best four-stroke engines.

 

[Grimm]

Agree on that one, else Yamaha may fall to #5 in sales after Premier Sleds http://www.premierrpc.com/

 

[rindtj]

I agree.

I think Yamaha just does not take it seriously. The technology that is included in their motors is heads and shoulders above the rest. You can get on a ski doo, and it might be as fast but it still does not sound or feel the same. If Yamaha put half of that amount of energy into designing and testing a chassis they would have something.

Go on Ski Doo's website and look at everything you can do and customize- it is always changing or something new is coming out every year. And that goes for just about every manufacturer. Yamaha has done nothing since 2011-literally nothing.

 

[KnappAttack]

I agree.

I think Yamaha just does not take it seriously. The technology that is included in their motors is heads and shoulders above the rest. You can get on a ski doo, and it might be as fast but it still does not sound or feel the same. If Yamaha put half of that amount of energy into designing and testing a chassis they would have something.

Go on Ski Doo's website and look at everything you can do and customize- it is always changing or something new is coming out every year. And that goes for just about every manufacturer. Yamaha has done nothing since 2011-literally nothing.

2011? I think you mean 2006 and for that matter the Apex is really still in a 03 RX1 chassis. My 2011 was no different than the 06 Apex IMO. Slight and I mean only slight changes from the 06 machines. So same chassis for last 10 years is how I'm seeing it! That's just not cutting it. And the Apex has actually gained weight. Its now a real heavyweight, over 715 lb. machine now ready to ride! That's over 110 pounds heavier than my 1200!!!! That is just crazy!

 

[rindtj]

No matter what the Apex actually sold relatively well that year- not sure on numbers but probably not far off from other manu's big iron. Whether or not that "new" model designation was justified it at least was SOMETHING.

 

[Riceburner]

I agree.

I think Yamaha just does not take it seriously. The technology that is included in their motors is heads and shoulders above the rest. You can get on a ski doo, and it might be as fast but it still does not sound or feel the same. If Yamaha put half of that amount of energy into designing and testing a chassis they would have something.

Go on Ski Doo's website and look at everything you can do and customize- it is always changing or something new is coming out every year. And that goes for just about every manufacturer. Yamaha has done nothing since 2011-literally nothing.

2011? I think you mean 2006 and for that matter the Apex is really still in a 03 RX1 chassis. My 2011 was no different than the 06 Apex IMO. Slight and I mean only slight changes from the 06 machines. So same chassis for last 10 years is how I'm seeing it! That's just not cutting it. And the Apex has actually gained weight. Its now a real heavyweight, over 715 lb. machine now ready to ride! That's over 110 pounds heavier than my 1200!!!! That is just crazy!

Mike, Enough is enough.

IMO you are full of it and must think we are all stupid here on TY or you have turned into a Troll. Too bad, you used to be a great contributor.


I found a few differences between my 06 & 11 such as the following.

It has the same engine block & Delta Box, that's about it. Edit.[Actually the Delta box is new as well.]

Let me count the ways;

New Intake system
New Rings
New pistons.
Different timing
Deto Sensor
More HP & torque
New Skis
New front suspension
New Plastics
New Seat
New tunnels
New Track lengths
New shock/spring packages
New rear suspensions.
Air Ride available
Exup
Power steering
Hot hand warmers
New windshield
New clutching & gearing
Much Quicker & faster than 2006/2010

I probably missed some things but that's a good start.

And by the way, the above are facts, not opinion.

We get the message. You think a Doo 1200 is a great sled. Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try one. Now give us a break on the B S.

 

[Irv]

I agree.

I think Yamaha just does not take it seriously. The technology that is included in their motors is heads and shoulders above the rest. You can get on a ski doo, and it might be as fast but it still does not sound or feel the same. If Yamaha put half of that amount of energy into designing and testing a chassis they would have something.

Go on Ski Doo's website and look at everything you can do and customize- it is always changing or something new is coming out every year. And that goes for just about every manufacturer. Yamaha has done nothing since 2011-literally nothing.

2011? I think you mean 2006 and for that matter the Apex is really still in a 03 RX1 chassis. My 2011 was no different than the 06 Apex IMO. Slight and I mean only slight changes from the 06 machines. So same chassis for last 10 years is how I'm seeing it! That's just not cutting it. And the Apex has actually gained weight. Its now a real heavyweight, over 715 lb. machine now ready to ride! That's over 110 pounds heavier than my 1200!!!! That is just crazy!

Mike, Enough is enough.

IMO you are full of it and must think we are all stupid here on TY or you have turned into a Troll. Too bad, you used to be a great contributor.


I found a few differences between my 06 & 11 such as the following.

It has the same engine block & Delta Box, that's about it.

Let me count the ways;

New Intake system
New Rings
New pistons.
Different timing
Deto Sensor
More HP & torque
New Skis
New front suspension
New Plastics
New Seat
New tunnels
New Track lengths
New shock/spring packages
New rear suspensions.
Air Ride available
Exup
Power steering
Hot hand warmers
New windshield
New clutching & gearing
Much Quicker & faster than 2006/2010

I probably missed some things but that's a good start.

And by the way, the above are facts, not opinion.

We get the message. You think a Doo 1200 is a great sled. Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try one. Now give us a break on the B S.

 

[kviper]

Exactly!!
My 2012 is much improved over my 06 and 07.
And out of the box the 1200 Doo is not faster or quicker than an out of the box Apex and they are not as quick as a Nytro but pull a touch more top end. The Doo also does not have the throttle response of any Yamaha four stroke or the fit and finish, they look crude compared to a Yamaha.
However the Doo'a all ride and handle very well and the 1200 is the only motor Doo has that is worth a pinch.
My 12 Apex is smooth crisp and just loads of fun factor not to mention a work of art to look at.
The 1050 Vector would get a top vote for the all around trail cruiser as well, the riding position on the Doo is also just not for me.
If there was one perfect sled for all we would all get very board!

 

[LJ 452]

While I understand the defensive attitude I think what he might be referring to would be the base chassis. Yes improvements have been made, many of which were clearly oversights on the original launch of the Apex. Skid, bushings, tunnel, cooling, etc. I feel that when Yamaha made the Vector an Apex with the triple they went the wrong way. Think about it, you've got a 500cc Phazer that most find uncomfortable, cold, twitchy, and unstable. Then you've got a Nytro basically an aggressive trail sled with a pile of issues in the handling and suspension department, my wife rode mine (it was set up pretty good as Nytro's go) she didn't care for it. I'm not going into the specifics of the issues on the Nytro (we all know them) but there's a reason they offer a $9,000 kit to be competitive. Then there's the Vector, big huge sled, with a less horsepower then it' original owner. Then the Apex a huge, heavy (yes it's heavy) with all the bells and whistles. To me the Apex is fine as is, sure it's in need of a new chassis to deal with the necessity for P.S. and just an overall update (maybe a progressive suspension), unfortunately I feel Yamaha's "progressive" tendencies ended with the 4-stroke engine. Point is, they really don't have a good 600cc/120-130hp light, nimble, sled. One that is just easy and comfortable, inexpensive (that's relative of course) to buy, operate, etc. To me the triple is a great engine, and is in need of a matching chassis to really bring out it's benefits. The thing gets great mileage, has great smooth power, more than enough to please probably 90% of the riders out there, it's just not utilized correctly. Make a nice lightweight, nimble, comfortable chassis, with easy steering (no P.S.) for that engine and you've got a winner. That's really what the Doo is, it's not the fastest, not the biggest, baddest, but it does the job it's intended to do very well. When they put the R-Motion in it, it will only get better. People who want more, super/turbo them.

To me the Vector has really left the 600 market as it's only trait that still matches that segment is the H.P. the rest of the sled is "Big Iron" like.

 

[kviper]

You are entitled to all of your opinion's but one thing that is for sure after switching with a couple E-Tec's last winter, you WILL NOT take my power steering away or my Yamaha four stroke or my fit and finish. Both Doo rider's said the steering is sweet, knowing these guy's as I do it had to be a good thing for them to have a good thing to say about a Yamaha. I switch with other people riding different brand's all the time. All in all my 12 Apex still has a fun factor that is as good as the best on groomed trail's where I ride.

 

[Bamboo]

Funny how the guys that have switched to other brands still keep coming back here to praise there new rides. I switched from Doo many years ago, I have never gone back onto Doo talk. Not even to look around. Not interested.

 

[Emme.g.h.]

Probebly because they know that yamaha has the capability to produce the best sled but lacking the interest....

 

[yamaha1973]

Funny how the guys that have switched to other brands still keep coming back here to praise there new ride.

X2 Its not like one person is convert everyone to a different brand

 

[KnappAttack]

Wow, so here's the deal, the original poster wants to try a Doo but doesn't want the motor problems. I suggested he try the 1200 as its a known fact they are extremely reliable.

A few guys disagree and can't accept the fact that not only are they reliable, but fast too, with over 150 HP on tap with the proper mods. Yes, it's my favorite machine I've ever owned, It seems some guys on this site wear blue goggles and can't pull their heads out of the snow drift and accept the fact that their may be other alternatives out there.

As of late, I'm trying a different brand every year, to see if perhaps there may be something better than I'm running right now, as long as there four-strokes. As of yet, I haven't found something I like better than the 1200 I keep around, just in case I don't like the new sled. Been eying up the r-motion myself. It will be the next machine in my shop with another 1200 under the hood.

I search every forum but Polaris. Didn't know it was a crime for the Doo guy's to come back to the Yamaha forums. I have no special color blood running thru my veins, and no special lens in my goggles. I wear Pro-Views and change the lens daily, just like my machines. When Yamaha comes with something that I feel will knock off my 1200, I'll give it another try too.

I bought a new 2011 Apex and did not like as well as my Doo. I sold mine, but my neighbor kept his and we have alot of fun together, running each other every every time we go out. He has no problem when I outrun him and and I have no problem when he outruns me. We both help each other out. He has his machine over here all the time wrenching on it. We both know how they perform and both of us are tweaked to the max. Right now I walk away from him at every point including the top end. No, it wasn't like that all the time. At one point he had me by 4-5 MPH up top. Will the 1200 run with the Apex stock? We all know it will not but, it is not that far off if the 1200 gets the throttle blade to pull WFO. Most the guys with the 1200 have no idea the throttle only pulls just about 3/4 open stock either.

And as far as changes to the Apex line, strip an old 2003 RX-1 and new 2013 Apex down to the chassis and tell me what you'll find. You'll see the same chassis with the Apex having a forward mounted steering post for the rider forward design. I don't care about one sled having a tubular Delta box and the other having a die cast loop, they still have the same dimensions and design. It's the same chassis albeit 40 lbs heavier with the added power steering on the 2013. As far as needing power steering, has anyone ridden the new Cats? No power steering needed there unless the owner adds C+A skis or something stupid like that.

Anyway, I'll keep my mouth shut from now on about how much I like the 1200 so the blue goggle crowd doesn't get upset anymore. Didn't know you had such thin skin.