TD MS17 w/SQ vs MS16 w/SM - 4000km - My Thoughts

[JayM]

**Disclaimer** I ride trails, mostly up in Timmins/Cochrane and RARELY try to hit top speed, usually just looking for corner to corner performance.

When new in October 2018 I had ordered a TD SQ muffler with Ecotrail Tune and Dalton weights, then I upgraded 2 days later to PowerTrail then a week later to the Multi Map lol And when we finally got snow I started and kept the sled on the 290HP/MS17 tune for the first 2300km's. This tune just rocked, very responsive, great fuel mileage, great top end just a blast to drive. I see no reason to have any other tune for the SQ muffler.

The one thing I did notice, was some drone from the SQ muffler, on days where we were doing 3-400km's it got old real quick even with my Oxygen helmet which is very good at sound blocking.

So, before going on a week long trip a few weeks ago I put the stock muffler back on and had it flashed to the Stock muffler Multi Map and used MS16 which is 260hp. I was a bit worried that it would be brutal and I would feel a lot of loss in power but I must say I didn't experience that AT ALL. I did 1750km that week and there's no reason at all to put the SQ back on. The power down low on the MS16 is REALLY good, extremely responsive and best of all, a "Quiet" ride. (It would be a lot quieter with a new primary lol) I did get what seemed like slightly worse fuel mileage though I couldn't test back to back.

I'm still running the DTYA-1 Weights but now empty, only seeing 87-8800rpm so I need to get them machined to lighten them a bit but still.

So, my conclusion, to do it over again from the beginning I would have gotten only MS16 (no Multi Map and no Dash Flash) I will say though that both MS17 and MS16 are REALLY good, if you can handle the SQ muffler noise then that's great if you want to keep it quiet you are not losing anything by going with the MS16. There is also no reason anyone should be running Eco/PowerTrail lol

 

[actionjack]

Agree 100 %. Dont need multi-map. SM MS16. Just need QAY set to about 73.5 gram. I tried to flash my sled back to single tune before I last left Maine but couldn't find the option in GAP. Only Online Flash.

 

[JayM]

Agree 100 %. Dont need multi-map. SM MS16. Just need QAY set to about 73.5 gram. I tried to flash my sled back to single tune before I last left Maine but couldn't find the option in GAP. Only Online Flash.

Yeah, no point now since spent the money already but for anyone new I would save the money and not do the Multi Map or Dash Flash. Dash Flash only gives the ability to change the map and have bigger boost reading, to me that's not worth the $350 CDN at all. If you had some extra things like keep track of max speed/rpm/boost etc. or additional setting options sure but that's not there disappointing for sure.

Are the profiles of the QAY and DTAY-1 similar just starts at lower weight? I was going to get my machinist buddy to remove maybe 2-3 grams on the inside of my DTAY-1's then adjust with the inserts as needed.

 

[theewarrior]

I am running a thunder products orange spring in the primary it’s actually a little stronger final shift and seems to keep RPMs a little higher maybe it would work instead of lightning your weights

 

[JayM]

I am running a thunder products orange spring in the primary it’s actually a little stronger final shift and seems to keep RPMs a little higher maybe it would work instead of lightning your weights

Interesting, I have a Black Bronze primary spring as well just not sure what it does vs black/green

 

[actionjack]

Yeah, no point now since spent the money already but for anyone new I would save the money and not do the Multi Map or Dash Flash. Dash Flash only gives the ability to change the map and have bigger boost reading, to me that's not worth the $350 CDN at all. If you had some extra things like keep track of max speed/rpm/boost etc. or additional setting options sure but that's not there disappointing for sure.

Are the profiles of the QAY and DTAY-1 similar just starts at lower weight? I was going to get my machinist buddy to remove maybe 2-3 grams on the inside of my DTAY-1's then adjust with the inserts as needed.

Yes. I believe so. Just need a bit less than empty DTYA-1 weights.

 

[DMCTurbo]

I'm running the Dalton black/teal primary spring with the dtya1s empty and a 41/35 Dalton with the Dalton gen1 black/orange at 6-1 and rpms are very close.

 

[JayM]

Interesting because this is what Dalton shows for the DTYA-1, I know there's variables but these should work for me.

DTYA-1 73.6-81g This set is now most often used with 240-290 level boosted/re-programmed Sidewinder models**, it was also common with (common older low boost Apex/RX turbo applications)

 

[actionjack]

Im running very similar to DMC including gen 1 B/O at 70º but 35º factory helix. My DTYA-1s are 74.74 g empty on my scale. Just a bit too much weight. Next year I'll try stock weights with washer added or just get QAY and start at 73.5g. Interested to try 38º helix, I think Jonlafon says more engine breaking -which I miss.

 

[Motorhead]

Im running very similar to DMC including gen 1 B/O at 70º but 35º factory helix. My DTYA-1s are 74.74 g empty on my scale. Just a bit too much weight. Next year I'll try stock weights with washer added or just get QAY and start at 73.5g. Interested to try 38º helix, I think Jonlafon says more engine breaking -which I miss.

Stock weights with added washer for weight. 73.8 - 73.9 works really good for me. All else stock except for 35/39 helix @ 6/1 twist.
Shall get a bit more top end revs with stock 35 helix.
Smooth set up with good mpg for my Max spool 16 tune. No slouch, 8850-8950. This is what rpms I like best.

Incase you decide to try this, it should put you pretty close.

 

[snowbeast]

Stock weights with added washer for weight. 73.8 - 73.9 works really good for me. All else stock except for 35/39 helix @ 6/1 twist.
Shall get a bit more top end revs with stock 35 helix.
Smooth set up with good mpg for my Max spool 16 tune. No slouch, 8850-8950. This is what rpms I like best.

Incase you decide to try this, it should put you pretty close.

Dennis,did you ditch your daltons,and reinstall your stock ramps again?

 

[MDGFLHR]

I'm running the Dalton black/teal primary spring with the dtya1s empty and a 41/35 Dalton with the Dalton gen1 black/orange at 6-1 and rpms are very close.

How do you like that spring compared to the Ulmer pink in the primary?

 

[lilrez]

Are you running the cai as well ?

 

[number1kyster]

Yeah, no point now since spent the money already but for anyone new I would save the money and not do the Multi Map or Dash Flash. Dash Flash only gives the ability to change the map and have bigger boost reading, to me that's not worth the $350 CDN at all. If you had some extra things like keep track of max speed/rpm/boost etc. or additional setting options sure but that's not there disappointing for sure.

Are the profiles of the QAY and DTAY-1 similar just starts at lower weight? I was going to get my machinist buddy to remove maybe 2-3 grams on the inside of my DTAY-1's then adjust with the inserts as needed.

This is sound advice. It sounds like MS16 and a set of QAY70s would be a good setup. For the price of the dash flash, you can purchase the BOV and 3 bar.

 

[JayM]

This is sound advice. It sounds like MS16 and a set of QAY70s would be a good setup. For the price of the dash flash, you can purchase the BOV and 3 bar.

100%, thats the better use of money for sure.

I tried Ecotrail just to see for 2 tanks of gas on my trip and I didn't get any better fuel mileage, still decent power but you lose the low end early Spool performance.