kennyspec
Expert
I was thinking of just getting pullys from here
http://www.pfeiferindustries.com/online ... ustom.html
Hae them splined for whatever shaft you want.
I think the powerhouse sleds use the apex chaincase. It looks as if they just dropped it down a bit and run the jackshaft through the tunnel. I am not sure they are running 8 or 9 tooth drivers but thry sure have a nice flat approach angle on their sleds. It would be interesting to see the clearance they have to the jackshaft and bulkhead while running a 3" paddle. The sled is a work of art......
http://www.pfeiferindustries.com/online ... ustom.html
Hae them splined for whatever shaft you want.
I think the powerhouse sleds use the apex chaincase. It looks as if they just dropped it down a bit and run the jackshaft through the tunnel. I am not sure they are running 8 or 9 tooth drivers but thry sure have a nice flat approach angle on their sleds. It would be interesting to see the clearance they have to the jackshaft and bulkhead while running a 3" paddle. The sled is a work of art......
Nikolai
TY 4 Stroke God
They are running 7-tooth drivers and with a 3" track there's about 3/8" of clearance. The jackshaft is in the tunnel. If you want to run the Yami drivetrain I'd get two chaincases and weld 2" into one of them. 7" centers are just too small. With longer centers you can get the jackshaft back out of the tunnel and have non restricted snow/air flow.
kennyspec
Expert
Thanks for the info. It will be quite the challange to get the 9" centers figured out and then still have to get the motor positioned square and in the correct spot to get the clutch center to center proper as well.
How will you go about getting the drive line measurments all correct? Install the motor first and then posotion the jack shaft relative to the motor? Or install the drivers, then the jackshaft, then position the motor based on jackshaft location?
How will you go about getting the drive line measurments all correct? Install the motor first and then posotion the jack shaft relative to the motor? Or install the drivers, then the jackshaft, then position the motor based on jackshaft location?
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
I think the consensus is to stay away from 7 tooth drivers. Trust me, unless you want to spec out a custom rail from Ice Age, I would stick to an 8 or 9. You simply have more options (Poo, AC, Yami, Ice Age stock)
On the belt drives, Gates make awesome belts, so if you can find a manufacturer who will make lightweight pulleys to match their pitch then that's the way to go. The advantage of using the Gates kevlar belts is they have high HP to inch of width and you can simply add width to transmit more power. The only real issue is parallelism, and its got to be pretty good on any sync belt setup to survive long term.
Say, did you guys see this post? Someone put it on SnoWest talking about the new Yami mountain sled?
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ni ... le-engine/
88 lbs and 400hp from 1.5 litres.....pretty impressive. Notice no counterbalancing shafts either, just a crank, and a belt drive for the cams and dry sump oil pump. Bone simple.
But I think what's more impressive is that the OEM's are warming to the idea of forced induction (turbo/super) on bikes and you know what that will mean for sleds in the long term.....
What I can see coming is a tunnel that is mostly intercooler and heat exchanger likely in a single extrusion on top with either a CF or aluminum sheet for the sides and running boards. It will be light, rear biased, low CG weight that is strong and able to support a seat/fuel tank/tunnel tank and bag. Hopefully the OEM's will start to understand that the snowmobile lends itself to forced induction quite well.
Yeah, a blown R6 or cut down triple R1 would be an interesting concept in a sled.....
If only I had the time and $'s
OTM
On the belt drives, Gates make awesome belts, so if you can find a manufacturer who will make lightweight pulleys to match their pitch then that's the way to go. The advantage of using the Gates kevlar belts is they have high HP to inch of width and you can simply add width to transmit more power. The only real issue is parallelism, and its got to be pretty good on any sync belt setup to survive long term.
Say, did you guys see this post? Someone put it on SnoWest talking about the new Yami mountain sled?
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ni ... le-engine/
88 lbs and 400hp from 1.5 litres.....pretty impressive. Notice no counterbalancing shafts either, just a crank, and a belt drive for the cams and dry sump oil pump. Bone simple.
But I think what's more impressive is that the OEM's are warming to the idea of forced induction (turbo/super) on bikes and you know what that will mean for sleds in the long term.....
What I can see coming is a tunnel that is mostly intercooler and heat exchanger likely in a single extrusion on top with either a CF or aluminum sheet for the sides and running boards. It will be light, rear biased, low CG weight that is strong and able to support a seat/fuel tank/tunnel tank and bag. Hopefully the OEM's will start to understand that the snowmobile lends itself to forced induction quite well.
Yeah, a blown R6 or cut down triple R1 would be an interesting concept in a sled.....
If only I had the time and $'s
OTM
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
Close Posts.
Engine, Drivers, Jackshaft, in that order
Lots of options on belt lengths for clutches and cog belt.
RPITA would be my guess, but totally worth it.
Engine, Drivers, Jackshaft, in that order
Lots of options on belt lengths for clutches and cog belt.
RPITA would be my guess, but totally worth it.
mike g
Extreme
The powerhouse chassis as Caleb said uses 7t drivers with a 3" track and has 7/8" clearance to the bulkhead and maybe just over 3/8" to the jackshaft. The approach angle is about 15 degrees compared to 21-22 of an xm or pro.
Nikolai
TY 4 Stroke God
My sled works well now with the current suspension location which I don't want to re-figure out. If I run an aftermarket suspension it will be a Cat Timbersled so I can use the same mounting holes as the oem float skid. My plan is to copy the engine mount/jackshaft location/suspension mounts of my sled. I want the jackshaft in the same position it's in now in relation to the engine because it works good running the header above it. I'm going to move the driveshaft straight down, and then back only far enough to clear a 3" track with 9-tooth drivers with a minimum of 3/4" clearance. I'm guessing this will end up around a 9" center to center. The suspension will stay as far forward as possible without hitting the drivers. Once I get the locations of everything drawn out, I'll have the local fab shop waterjet huge templates out of heavy steel that I can weld upright onto a 4x12 steel table. The suspension, driveshaft, jackshaft, and front & rear engine mounts will all be in the same template. Once I weld the templates to the 4x12 table I'll position the XM front clip where I need it and complete the jig. My nytro front clip was fabbed from a stock subframe without a jig, so my current chassis is not true. I'm going to make damn sure my 2014 chassis is absolutely perfect.
kennyspec
Expert
I was looking at the front susp of my cousins new assault and noticed it looks extremely similar to my buddys iq. When comparing the two sleds side by side the a arm mounting points are identical the driveshaft loks to be in the same location and the tunnell and rear susp seem similar as well. Is the new assault/rmk just a iq chassis with a updated bulkhead? ( cast vs sheetmetal nun style) I know the engine and bracing is different but it seems like the same layout and geometry? Or am I missing something?
Nikolai
TY 4 Stroke God
I think the chassis geometry is all the same with various changes to the a-arms & spindles over time.
In hopes of keeping my 2014 relatively inexpensive I've lessened the cost on the belt drive quite a bit. If a person stuck with 8-tooth drivers, the oem drivers are 1.35 lbs lighter than the Avid 8-tooth drivers and only cost $150. You can get low mileage 2013 brake calipers for $125 on ebay. This would get a complete belt drive setup under $1,300.
My Nytro driveshaft with 8-tooth 2.86 pitch avids is about 8.5 lbs if memory serves me right. A BDX PC shaft with oem drivers would be about 7.8 lbs. With the additional weight loss of the chaincase cover, gears & chain, I think an overall weight loss of 3-4 lbs is realistic over the Nytro, maybe more. Plus it nearly all be rotating weight.
When I change my gearing a couple weeks I'll weigh the stock Nytro brake caliper, rotor, chaincase cover, chain, tensioner, and both gears.
In hopes of keeping my 2014 relatively inexpensive I've lessened the cost on the belt drive quite a bit. If a person stuck with 8-tooth drivers, the oem drivers are 1.35 lbs lighter than the Avid 8-tooth drivers and only cost $150. You can get low mileage 2013 brake calipers for $125 on ebay. This would get a complete belt drive setup under $1,300.
My Nytro driveshaft with 8-tooth 2.86 pitch avids is about 8.5 lbs if memory serves me right. A BDX PC shaft with oem drivers would be about 7.8 lbs. With the additional weight loss of the chaincase cover, gears & chain, I think an overall weight loss of 3-4 lbs is realistic over the Nytro, maybe more. Plus it nearly all be rotating weight.
When I change my gearing a couple weeks I'll weigh the stock Nytro brake caliper, rotor, chaincase cover, chain, tensioner, and both gears.
albin
Newbie
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2013
- Messages
- 11
- Country
- Sweden
- Snowmobile
- Apex overload
what do you think would happen if you took the cover off and ran without oil?Nikolai said:
obviously would reduce life expectancy. as a motorbike.
kennyspec
Expert
Chain case will last about 10 miles without oil. Seen it happen. Chain and gears got so hot they turned blue.
kennyspec
Expert
I have been playing around in cad. I think that my nytro with my cat skid has a approach angle of about 18* using 7 tooth drivers. using a 9 tooth (assuming the track fits) brings it to about 15*. If the driver is moved down about 2" a 7 tooth makes it 13* a 9 tooth brings it to 10*. in the pic below the drivers are shown as a 7, 8 and 9 tooth. they are moved down 2" from where they sit in the sled just to see what the angle would be. Can someone verify my driver diameter? I just assumed a 7 tooth 3" pitch driver has a circumference of 7 x 3 (7 teeth at a 3" spacing) 21/3.14 gives a diameter of 6.7" and my 9 tooth has a diameter of 8.6"
so with a 10* approach angle the track would not be touching the first part of the rails as they have a 20* angle. would the snow just push the track until it does touch the rails at the front effectively giving you a 20* angle again? gaining nothing? if this angle of 10* did work would it be better to get rails that also have a 10* angle on the front of them?
where is the optimal distance away from the drivers to mount the skid? I think the closer to the drivers the better the weight transfer would be but the more ground clearance you will lose as the rails stab into the trackline. the further back you go the better the approach angle is, the more ground clearance you gain but it also puts a lot more weight over the skis.
so with a 10* approach angle the track would not be touching the first part of the rails as they have a 20* angle. would the snow just push the track until it does touch the rails at the front effectively giving you a 20* angle again? gaining nothing? if this angle of 10* did work would it be better to get rails that also have a 10* angle on the front of them?
where is the optimal distance away from the drivers to mount the skid? I think the closer to the drivers the better the weight transfer would be but the more ground clearance you will lose as the rails stab into the trackline. the further back you go the better the approach angle is, the more ground clearance you gain but it also puts a lot more weight over the skis.
kennyspec
Expert
Thoughts? Anyone? Lol
TLRAK
Veteran
Do you have cat rails also? 20 degrees seems steep. I have a cat rails and they are shallow as ever, maybe 12 degrees. What is the factory cat angle? Budddy with M1k cat has a bit shallower angle than mine and that this climbs on the snow really well. If you could get closer to 10 degrees and run the largest drivers it seems you could gain a bit from current set up. Getting 10 rails will help, my approach angle is better but I have to run anti-stab and big wheels at the bend to help it not stab. Been thru one 2.5 track already. 
kennyspec
Expert
They are just under 20. Prob 18 or 19 by the looks of it.
Wife's sled is a 08 Nytro stretched to 141" x 2" and it trenches like crazy. In deep powder mine will crawl away hers just digs till its stuck. Approach angle about 26*
Wife's sled is a 08 Nytro stretched to 141" x 2" and it trenches like crazy. In deep powder mine will crawl away hers just digs till its stuck. Approach angle about 26*
