TIMING CONTROLLER SET UP.

[snowy1]

I am going to use a timing controller with my MCX kit on my nytro. as I have never used a timing controller befor I don,t know where to start. any info on set up for pump gas 91 octane max boost and where to start pulling timing. stock motor and compression and how to set up for 18 lbs what octane where to start pulling timing and how much, any info you think I need would be appreciated, I could put the head shim in if thats needed as will, thanks ahead of time. I will most likely be using the TIC-1000, so I think I can add timing on the bottom if you think thats needed and then take it back out, not for sure on that yet.

 

[zross1]

I'll tell you how I tune my gt35r car on pump gas (475awhp) in regards to timing and a/f ratio. First thing is I tun off knock.
To tune like this it is obviously beneficial to have some sort of a knock box. With my car I actually had the ability to monitor exactly how many counts of knock I was getting and pin them down to which cylinder. I could also add or pull fuel to each individual cylinder, anyway that is not relevent here. I would start with low boost and a very conservative a/f ratio. On pump I would shoot for low 11's. 11:2 or so. My guess is you are not going to see knock until 11-12 psi on pump and stock compression. You will need way more fuel then you are use to when runing race fuel. I would keep slowly turning up the boost until I started to see knock. Once you see knock you have two ways to try to eleminate it one is adding more fuel and second is pulling timing. If you are close to 11:5 a/f I would add some more fuel until I got around 11:2 and see if this help elemimate the knock. If it does, I would continue to increase the boost until I see knock again. Then when you see knock I would start pulling 1-2 deg of timing. If this doesn't help I would pull some more timing. I pulled some massive timing with my car to run 25 psi on pump gas I bet I pulled at least 7 deg of advance from 6k to 9k rpm's.

The trick is finding where you make the most power with the right a/f, boost, and timing advance. You could be running 30 psi with 8 deg of timing advance and not make as much power as running 25 psi with only12 deg of timing advance. Or you could make more power running 11:2 a/f at 25 psi compared to 10:1 a/f at 30 psi. These are all arbitrary numbers, but hopefully you get the idea. Just need to find what the motor wants.

What timing control did you get? And how much timing can you pull? Let us know how it turns out.

 

[snowy1]

I have not got the timing box yet, but I am going to use the TIC-1000, just picked up the sled today, turbo kit should be here in aweek or so. I won,t beable to start tuning for 2-3 weeks atleast. just want to be ready, I will be riding 8000 to 10,500 ft. I appreciate the info thanks, and anybody else that has any ideas please comment.

 

[summitking]

sled

On my apex i am actually advancing my timing on the bottom end to compensate for the lowered compresion and pulling the timing back 1.5 degrees starting 8 lbs of boost
I ve been running 16 lbs on pump gas without any problems

 

[snowy1]

Re: sled

On my apex i am actually advancing my timing on the bottom end to compensate for the lowered compresion and pulling the timing back 1.5 degrees starting 8 lbs of boost
I ve been running 16 lbs on pump gas without any problems

how much advance on the bottom and how much did you lower the compression, thats one of the things I am not sure of yet if I should put the shim in or not, have you tried it with and with out the advance on the bottom, if so did it improve the throttle response with the advance.

 

[summitking]

sled

I have a head shim in my sled but i im not sure how much the timing is advanced on the bottom end

 

[Ted Jannetty]

I am going to use a timing controller with my MCX kit on my nytro. as I have never used a timing controller befor I don,t know where to start. any info on set up for pump gas 91 octane max boost and where to start pulling timing. stock motor and compression and how to set up for 18 lbs what octane where to start pulling timing and how much, any info you think I need would be appreciated, I could put the head shim in if thats needed as will, thanks ahead of time. I will most likely be using the TIC-1000, so I think I can add timing on the bottom if you think thats needed and then take it back out, not for sure on that yet.

I had posted a couple good rules of thumb, plus all the info Hammer has posted should be very helpful.

1 octane for every lb. of boost, starting at what every your sled can handle on pump fuel.
1 degree of timing per pound of boost also starting at what every your sled can handle on pump fuel.

Now here is where it gets complicated, you can run real high octane fuel and pull NO timing up to around 15-18 psi then maybe a 1/2 degree per pound of boost there after, but only careful dyno testing will reveal what the motor really wants or needs.

Ted.

 

[snowy1]

Thanks Ted, I have looked at the other post as will. just trying to get anymore info that may be out there. MCexpress says there kit is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel with head shim, I will will always be running alittle more octane than that to be safe, but if I understand it right I should be able to run 18lbs boost on pump fuel with 6 degrees total retard, if there set up is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel and still not go to far on retarding the timing. I want to run this one on the safe side not really looking to get every last hp. out of it, don,t really plan on doing any serious drag racing, just every day boonedocking and hill climbing. what is your thoughts on advancing the timing on the bottom do you think its something that would improve the bottom end. thanks again,

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Thanks Ted, I have looked at the other post as will. just trying to get anymore info that may be out there. MCexpress says there kit is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel with head shim, I will will always be running alittle more octane than that to be safe, but if I understand it right I should be able to run 18lbs boost on pump fuel with 6 degrees total retard, if there set up is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel and still not go to far on retarding the timing. I want to run this one on the safe side not really looking to get every last hp. out of it, don,t really plan on doing any serious drag racing, just every day boonedocking and hill climbing. what is your thoughts on advancing the timing on the bottom do you think its something that would improve the bottom end. thanks again,

Your always better off with the octane than pulling timing, pulling timing increases EGT and gives up a lot of power plus there is no garantee the motor won't blow anyway.

The answer is not the timing but the OCTANE.

Ted.

 

[mulot30th]

Thanks Ted, I have looked at the other post as will. just trying to get anymore info that may be out there. MCexpress says there kit is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel with head shim, I will will always be running alittle more octane than that to be safe, but if I understand it right I should be able to run 18lbs boost on pump fuel with 6 degrees total retard, if there set up is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel and still not go to far on retarding the timing. I want to run this one on the safe side not really looking to get every last hp. out of it, don,t really plan on doing any serious drag racing, just every day boonedocking and hill climbing. what is your thoughts on advancing the timing on the bottom do you think its something that would improve the bottom end. thanks again,

Your always better off with the octane than pulling timing, pulling timing increases EGT and gives up a lot of power plus there is no garantee the motor won't blow anyway.

The answer is not the timing but the OCTANE.

Ted.

Not always ted....

I ran 100% pure C16 (117 octane) on my stock compression engine last winter... at 18 psi... no detonation, I repeat... no deto...


but the machinist told me my cylinders are 0.0025 taper....... or something like that... just to say that pulling timing to decrease cylinder pressure is a good idea.. but you already know all this stuff

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Thanks Ted, I have looked at the other post as will. just trying to get anymore info that may be out there. MCexpress says there kit is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel with head shim, I will will always be running alittle more octane than that to be safe, but if I understand it right I should be able to run 18lbs boost on pump fuel with 6 degrees total retard, if there set up is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel and still not go to far on retarding the timing. I want to run this one on the safe side not really looking to get every last hp. out of it, don,t really plan on doing any serious drag racing, just every day boonedocking and hill climbing. what is your thoughts on advancing the timing on the bottom do you think its something that would improve the bottom end. thanks again,

Your always better off with the octane than pulling timing, pulling timing increases EGT and gives up a lot of power plus there is no garantee the motor won't blow anyway.

The answer is not the timing but the OCTANE.

Ted.

Not always ted....

I ran 100% pure C16 (117 octane) on my stock compression engine last winter... at 18 psi... no detonation, I repeat... no deto...


but the machinist told me my cylinders are 0.0025 taper....... or something like that... just to say that pulling timing to decrease cylinder pressure is a good idea.. but you already know all this stuff

Yes I know but Snowy wants to run 18 psi on pump gas.

 

[snowy1]

I was just using that as an example I due not want to run 18 lbs on pump fuel, as I said I will not run strait pump fuel on 12 lbs. mcexpress says I can with a head shim but I will be running a mix of race fuel at all times to be safe, and if I was to run 18 lbs I would run even more race fuel.

 

[Ted Jannetty]

I was just using that as an example I due not want to run 18 lbs on pump fuel, as I said I will not run strait pump fuel on 12 lbs. mcexpress says I can with a head shim but I will be running a mix of race fuel at all times to be safe, and if I was to run 18 lbs I would run even more race fuel.

That is great, you had me worried there for a minute.

 

[mulot30th]

Thanks Ted, I have looked at the other post as will. just trying to get anymore info that may be out there. MCexpress says there kit is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel with head shim, I will will always be running alittle more octane than that to be safe, but if I understand it right I should be able to run 18lbs boost on pump fuel with 6 degrees total retard, if there set up is good to 12 lbs on pump fuel and still not go to far on retarding the timing. I want to run this one on the safe side not really looking to get every last hp. out of it, don,t really plan on doing any serious drag racing, just every day boonedocking and hill climbing. what is your thoughts on advancing the timing on the bottom do you think its something that would improve the bottom end. thanks again,

Your always better off with the octane than pulling timing, pulling timing increases EGT and gives up a lot of power plus there is no garantee the motor won't blow anyway.

The answer is not the timing but the OCTANE.

Ted.

Not always ted....

I ran 100% pure C16 (117 octane) on my stock compression engine last winter... at 18 psi... no detonation, I repeat... no deto...


but the machinist told me my cylinders are 0.0025 taper....... or something like that... just to say that pulling timing to decrease cylinder pressure is a good idea.. but you already know all this stuff

Yes I know but Snowy wants to run 18 psi on pump gas.

ouch!!!!!

 

[snowy1]

looks like the TIC-1000 may not work on the three cylinder, I don,t know that the msd set up will work with the MCX kit due to the return oil pump location, any ideas.