Track, Storm or Rip 2 1.5?

[STAIN]

I dont have any first hand experience with the tracks you mentioned but Ive always preferred big lug tracks

which tracks do you run.
I am currently leaning toward the Rip2 with 144 studs in the middle

 

[max rolph]

storm 2 ply... no balooning and hooks and brakes 10X better, you will scrub 5 mph off compared to 1" but the fun factor is in corner to corner.... how often are you on a lake and doing 125 mph!! if thats all you do stay with rip II and enjoy. i have had all the tracks and i like the predictability of emergency braking and knowing it hooks to slow dwn fast.

 

[STAIN]

storm 2 ply... no balooning and hooks and brakes 10X better, you will scrub 5 mph off compared to 1" but the fun factor is in corner to corner.... how often are you on a lake and doing 125 mph!! if thats all you do stay with rip II and enjoy. i have had all the tracks and i like the predictability of emergency braking and knowing it hooks to slow dwn fast.

I meant rip2 1.5

 

[earthling]

I would run a fully clipped 1.5 Ripsaw. I think that offers the best balance of traction and speed tolerance. What I do not know is the durometer ratings for lugs on different tracks. A softer rating would probably give you better traction but not work as well at high speed as the lugs start to fold over. If there is a durometer rating chart to compare tracks, I for one would love to see it.

I agree that there should be more information available to make track choices but I don't think durometer would actually tell us enough. Durometer is a measure of resistance to indentation/surface deformation providing you with a value of 'hardness'. That doesn't really tell us anything. Performance at any lug height can be dramatically influenced by lug design. A 3" tall lug with 2" wide vertical support ribs behind it is going to behave differently than a thin profile 3" lug while having the same durometer. on a sidenote; I have seen some dealers make off handed comments about durometer but have never found out where they got the information.

I wish the track manufacturers (by that I guess I mean Camso) would give us some kind of rating based on a standard work rate (output @ RPM) and deformation (load) value. For instance if we pick 350 track RPM (the ~average RPM of 121 and 137" tracks at 45MPH) then we could judge tracks based on how much snow the lugs are designed to move and at some standardized load rating. A 3" tall lug will obviously move a lot of snow but with a low load rating it won't last long on a hardpacked trail. A 1" tall lug will move 1/3rd the snow but at a much higher load. This would allow you to take a specific lug height, say 1.5" where there is a lot of models to choose from and make a choice based on the appropriate balance of snow/load rating for your horsepower application or given conditions. When running a high horsepower application you would obviously bias the load rating over snow moving ability (especially if you are making grip with studs). As a completely fictitious and exaggerated example;

complete BS example chart.

1.5" Tracks	Ripsaw	Ripsaw 2	Ice Storm*	Storm
Snow Volume (ft^3)	750​	845​	875​	875​
Load Rating (lb ft)	475​	450​	325​	410​

*=single ply

Going in, I know I am running a moderate tune so ice storm is the least appropriate, the rip 2 or storm are more durable with the storm being slightly more work efficient at a slight degradation in durability and the ripsaw 1 won't be as good on soft surfaces (moves less snow). Since I am riding mostly trail, and even then, not a lot of well groomed trails with the occasional ditch banging, I might choose the Storm for its greater snow moving efficiency. With a high HP tune and hardpack I might choose the ripsaw.

In any case, the lack of ANY details on the camso website makes choosing tracks tricky.

 

[STAIN]

The nice thing about going to some of the pre-season snow shows is the there are some factory reps there to talk to.
I made my last track choice after speaking to Camso rep at the New Hampshire snow drag event in 2019.

 

[STAIN]

I think I have made my decision
1.5 Ripsaw 2 with 144 Roetin hornets in the center belt , 2-4 pattern.
I think I will order from CB performance ( a site sponsor )

 

[Turboflash]

I agree that there should be more information available to make track choices but I don't think durometer would actually tell us enough. Durometer is a measure of resistance to indentation/surface deformation providing you with a value of 'hardness'. That doesn't really tell us anything. Performance at any lug height can be dramatically influenced by lug design. A 3" tall lug with 2" wide vertical support ribs behind it is going to behave differently than a thin profile 3" lug while having the same durometer. on a sidenote; I have seen some dealers make off handed comments about durometer but have never found out where they got the information.

I wish the track manufacturers (by that I guess I mean Camso) would give us some kind of rating based on a standard work rate (output @ RPM) and deformation (load) value. For instance if we pick 350 track RPM (the ~average RPM of 121 and 137" tracks at 45MPH) then we could judge tracks based on how much snow the lugs are designed to move and at some standardized load rating. A 3" tall lug will obviously move a lot of snow but with a low load rating it won't last long on a hardpacked trail. A 1" tall lug will move 1/3rd the snow but at a much higher load. This would allow you to take a specific lug height, say 1.5" where there is a lot of models to choose from and make a choice based on the appropriate balance of snow/load rating for your horsepower application or given conditions. When running a high horsepower application you would obviously bias the load rating over snow moving ability (especially if you are making grip with studs). As a completely fictitious and exaggerated example;

complete BS example chart.

1.5" Tracks	Ripsaw	Ripsaw 2	Ice Storm*	Storm
Snow Volume (ft^3)	750​	845​	875​	875​
Load Rating (lb ft)	475​	450​	325​	410​

*=single ply

Going in, I know I am running a moderate tune so ice storm is the least appropriate, the rip 2 or storm are more durable with the storm being slightly more work efficient at a slight degradation in durability and the ripsaw 1 won't be as good on soft surfaces (moves less snow). Since I am riding mostly trail, and even then, not a lot of well groomed trails with the occasional ditch banging, I might choose the Storm for its greater snow moving efficiency. With a high HP tune and hardpack I might choose the ripsaw.

In any case, the lack of ANY details on the camso website makes choosing tracks tricky.

So you're one of those guys who would like to use data to make decisions? Me too x 10! Hard to argue with facts/data.
Absent the data you mention and we need, we are left with making the decision based on opinions from all kinds of humans (including ourselves) which is very subjective (aka unscientific). One guys "hooks hard" is another guys "traction is adequate" is another guys "spins too easy" etc. Sometimes, there's enough general consensus to at least keep us going in right general direction.

 

[earthling]

So you're one of those guys who would like to use data to make decisions? Me too x 10! Hard to argue with facts/data.
Absent the data you mention and we need, we are left with making the decision based on opinions from all kinds of humans (including ourselves) which is very subjective (aka unscientific). One guys "hooks hard" is another guys "traction is adequate" is another guys "spins too easy" etc. Sometimes, there's enough general consensus to at least keep us going in right general direction.

I have this stupid sidewinder spreadsheet I started keeping even before I owned one, by the time I bought one I already had a list of todos and mods and why those mods were worth it. Letting data drive conclusions was drilled into me at an early age and I have a hard time letting go of wanting to know sometimes, this is especially true when some product page on a website gives you hand-wavy data. (Stink eye at Camso and their stupidly inconsistent and vague expectation bars). Hey - Mr Camso, how do I exactly read those bars when there are no numbers, and you use difference references? just kiddin' or am I.. Somewhere a marketing person is giving me the finger..

Reading other people ideas on forums like this one helps me understand how much I don't know and that drives me to do more 'homework'. I am just happy to find forums like this one with open respectful discussions and sharing of opinions that are backed by many years of experience. Hard to model 'experience' in a spreadsheet and for those questions that require experience, 'hooks hard' repeated often enough is good enough for me.

 

[Turboflash]

I have this stupid sidewinder spreadsheet I started keeping even before I owned one, by the time I bought one I already had a list of todos and mods and why those mods were worth it. Letting data drive conclusions was drilled into me at an early age and I have a hard time letting go of wanting to know sometimes, this is especially true when some product page on a website gives you hand-wavy data. (Stink eye at Camso and their stupidly inconsistent and vague expectation bars). Hey - Mr Camso, how do I exactly read those bars when there are no numbers, and you use difference references? just kiddin' or am I.. Somewhere a marketing person is giving me the finger..

View attachment 168371

Reading other people ideas on forums like this one helps me understand how much I don't know and that drives me to do more 'homework'. I am just happy to find forums like this one with open respectful discussions and sharing of opinions that are backed by many years of experience. Hard to model 'experience' in a spreadsheet and for those questions that require experience, 'hooks hard' repeated often enough is good enough for me.

LOL. We're too alike (I think). My riding buddies laugh and give sh&t when I tell them I want to make data-driven decisions.
You will understand me when I say for my career I was Lean Certified, Six Sigma Black Belt. If the data doesn't show it, it ain't so!

 

[earthling]

LOL. We're too alike (I think). My riding buddies laugh and give sh&t when I tell them I want to make data-driven decisions.
You will understand me when I say for my career I was Lean Certified, Six Sigma Black Belt. If the data doesn't show it, it ain't so!

LOL! My world is SAFE and Agile (mostly software) although having run large R&D and manufacturing groups I also had to deal with Lean/Kanban. I totally get where you are coming from. My buddies laugh when I mention logging and break out a spreadsheet before turning a wrench, but they never complain when I help them talk through a problem and offer advice.

 

[Sledroll]

which tracks do you run.
I am currently leaning toward the Rip2 with 144 studs in the middle

I will go this route also , as my biggest issue with the 1" with 144 1.5" studs is stopping !!
Those 90 degree trail turns seem to come out of nowhere !!
It will be a funner sled on the trails with the additional out of the corner traction .

 

[STAIN]

as my biggest issue with the 1" with 144 1.5" studs is stopping !!

No Doubt!!!! first thing I noticed when riding a 2020 T-Cat for the first time is the lack of stopping with the 1 inch track. A little unnerving at first.

 

[earthling]

No Doubt!!!! first thing I noticed when riding a 2020 T-Cat for the first time is the lack of stopping with the 1 inch track. A little unnerving at first.

Same, its a bit too engaging. The first time I came into a corner too hot I am not sure which was squeezing harder my brake hand or my butt cheeks the worst part is you have time to think about it!. Luckily the corner had enough snow in it to slow down in time.

 

[Turboflash]

From having run both, seems like there's quite a difference between 1" and even 1.25" on braking. 1.5" even greater. Stopping, it seems like studs help on hard pack but in loose snow, the studs don't help much but the height of the track really matters.

 

[Renegade XRS 900R]

Camso Hurricane 175 2 ply has worked great for me for 3 seasons, with over 3,000 miles.With 270 SS28R iGRIP studs. ( 146”skid) No issues,best pricing on Shade tree,.70 cents each (fall pricing).Track $600