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tunners in trash after 40 miles pilots are on

Discussion in 'SideWinder Trail Talk' started by 4strokes, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. 4strokes

    4strokes Veteran

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    charlemont ma
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    18 winder xtx 09 nytro xtx 06 apex gt
    have been reading forum for 10 years. thanks god for this place, I had 6.9 pilots ready to go before the sled came in. made myself try the tunners. Interesting that a 200 hp $16000 machine would come with skis that dont even think about turning. put pilots on after first ride and never looked back. easy to steer and predictable. for ha has I tried the tunners on my nytro xtx and was even scarier. tried them on my buddies 12 f8 and if you wanted to go around a corner, the group would have to stop and throw the rear end over and go again. I have no doubt that a pair of bent worn metal skis from the 80s would be a huge upgrade. how could they possibly have tried and produced tunners??? a pair of dynastars would work better. I feel for anybody that has those still on their sled. absolutley deadly
     
    jtmetal likes this.
  2.  
  3. fourload

    fourload VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    UPSTATE,NY
    Yup. I fiddled with my tuners for half a season and tried every suspension setting and aggressive carbides and it still wouldn’t turn. Dangerous and couldn’t even keep up with the wife on her Polaris on the trails. Pilots on now and all is well. Slight predictable push at times but overall I really like them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  4. 4strokes

    4strokes Veteran

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    charlemont ma
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    18 winder xtx 09 nytro xtx 06 apex gt
    I think you mean you put pilots on????? I have gen 1 simmons on my nytro and like them better than pilots in loose snow, but my wife rides the winder a lot and I believe pilots are more forgiving on hard snow where precisions or gen 1s are little harder on arms. put precisions on my buddies 12 f8 last week. first good handling ride I ever had on it. he rode it 8000 miles with the violent, exhausting stock cat skis. Anybody that takes snowmobiling seriously shouldn't be afraid of buying skis. best and first mod that should be done when needed. what a waste of a machine my winder was with those tuners. unrideable.....
     
  5. Motorhead

    Motorhead VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    Augusta, Maine
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 SW LTX-LE
    LOCATION:
    Augusta ME
    Yeah I agree, as do many others who have tried to use the tuners. I too thought they were dangerous on my unstudded sled, they darted all over and would not turn at all if we had any fresh snow on the groomed trail. My dealer likes the Snow Trackers with the tuners, Claims they work well together. I was going to try them, but they did not have the correct pair and 3 weeks out was way too far,so I put a set of Curves with SJ on the sled.

    But get this, Gave them to my buddy to try on his 08 Apex LTX and SURPRISE !!! They are a great ski for his sled. He has tried other skis and these are his choice. They seem very aggressive and do not dart at all. Only downfall is they do not float well in snow. I tried them myself on his APEX many times and I just cannot believe how they work. He still using the stock cheap carbides that they came with.
     
  6. 4strokes

    4strokes Veteran

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    charlemont ma
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    18 winder xtx 09 nytro xtx 06 apex gt
    Yes, hard to believe they work. maybe I will try them on my apex. only gets used on smooth hardpack anyway. I didn't think they darted at all, just no turning regardless of ski pressure. My thought on trackers are they are to help darting and would only make it turn even less than not at all. I only tried curves once. I thought they turn and handle great, but darted a tiny bit compared to a dual keel, but carve better... to me, I think curves would be a good candidate for trackers or they have the leading edge I believe
     
  7. Hammer Down

    Hammer Down Extreme

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Loudon, NH
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    Sidewinder STX-DX 2017
    Have pilot’s on myself after 3500 miles with tuners I have DX model. Sled turns well but DARTING on fresh groomed trail especially just after trail has seen light traffic. I have carbides per Rocker Dan’s suggestion. Any suggestions on how to eliminate darting? Toe out is set at 1/8” . This Is my only issue left to sort out and sled will be dialed in 100%.
     
  8. snowdust

    snowdust Expert

    Messages:
    489
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    Sidewinder
    Pricey, but snowtrackers with the pilots will solve your issue. Pilots work decent imo without snowtrackers, but with them they are the best of everything. Lighter steering and absolutely no darting. They carve much better in corners as well. I was running Pilots with shapers previously...
     
  9. 4strokes

    4strokes Veteran

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    charlemont ma
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    18 winder xtx 09 nytro xtx 06 apex gt
    Is it possible the better carving is from increased ski pressure after darting was resolved? and to the hammerdown guy. mine darted a tiny pit after pilots in hardpack. I turned 1/2 turn toe out on the trail and made a huge difference. after that I was able to increase ski pressure and still do darting.
     
  10. Upton44

    Upton44 Pro

    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Belair mb
    Country:
    Canada
    Snowmobile:
    2016 ltx se
    I don't get darting with my tuners just pushes like crazy in the corners.went with cat skis with bergstrom triple points.tuners are deadly.
     
  11. jtmetal

    jtmetal VIP Member VIP Member Donating Member

    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '17 Sidewinder LTX SE
    That's something I wouldn't admit to......

    1) couldn't keep up with the wife.
    2) she rides a Polaris.
     
    fourload likes this.
  12. Hammer Down

    Hammer Down Extreme

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Loudon, NH
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    Sidewinder STX-DX 2017
    I will try increasing toe out. I have suspension set to lightest steering effort. Center shock cranked up as much as feel comfortable and ski shock loose as I feel comfortable. I did this due to heavy steer with tuners and left it same for Pilots. I definitely would consider sno-tracker if problem solved I am nervous the sno-tracker could introduce heavy steer, push or both.
     
  13. jtmetal

    jtmetal VIP Member VIP Member Donating Member

    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '17 Sidewinder LTX SE
    Idk.....I stayed with shaper bars for carbide. While they are more expensive I've always felt confident in the trails.

    Also, you could try adding a touch more ski pressure. But, it seems as though you've got things extremely close. If darting is only during an isolated condition.
    Some days conditions can change three four times.
     
  14. snowdust

    snowdust Expert

    Messages:
    489
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    Sidewinder
    No, with snowtrackers you run as little ski pressure as possible. With no changes they steer much easier. My dad and I both run pilots and when I switched from shapers to snowtrackers it was night and day. So much so that when he rode mine his first words were "How much is this going to cost me?" :) FYI - we set our toe at 1/8 out ish...
     
  15. 4strokes

    4strokes Veteran

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    charlemont ma
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    18 winder xtx 09 nytro xtx 06 apex gt
    you loose me when you say heavy steering. I had maximum ski pressure on them with 3 sleds and a baby could turn the bars with one hand, it did not steer at all. I guess it depends on what you are coming from. I have a lot of nytro time, so I know what heavy steering is. I am quite surprised so many are installing the bop kit. I find the sled easy on the arms no matter what, especially with the pilots. I tried the steering ratio mod on my nytro and hated the extra motion at the bars and trashed the idea. skis were the answer. I had simmons gen 3 for 10000 miles. love/hate. the steered easy and carved, but were great for catching rr tracks and rocks. loved to bend frames and loosen arms. at time took rocks with me for miles until tipping sled up and pounding them out with another rock. carbides constantly ripping off, even after adding the updated front bolts. very expensive carbides only available from them. oh ya, also cracked 2 spindles at the bushings. eventually went back to gen 1s and little more toe out and that machine is working good now too. but like my gen 3s, are wearing the leading edge and like to catch stuff. I would like to get my hands on some more precisions to try here and there. they have a little arch to them and seem to hold better at the leading edge for wear.
     
  16. 4strokes

    4strokes Veteran

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    charlemont ma
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    18 winder xtx 09 nytro xtx 06 apex gt
    when you say easier, do you mean on your arms, or that it carves/bites better
     

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