Ultimax is inconsistent on team clutches

[fourload]

Your using all stock clutching I think front and back?

I found the same this last week while trying some stock stuff back in the clutch while trying some lower HP stock muffler flashes. About a 200 RPM swing between the two belts on same day testing/logging.

I find a larger swing of RPM on the bigger tunes and Dalton ramps, more like 400-500 RPM. Even being down in RPM the XS is the same or better MPH as long as you are not out of gear yet.

Stock weights loaded up to 17 specs but a 35/39 rear dalton helix as opposed to the stock 35 helix. TPI rollers front and rear. TPI orange primary spring. I think it is about 35/135 . Nice low 2700 engagement. Orange TPI secondary spring which is wrapped at 40. Not too stiff at a lower wrap.

 

[Sledroll]

Stock weights loaded up to 17 specs but a 35/39 rear dalton helix as opposed to the stock 35 helix. TPI rollers front and rear. TPI orange primary spring. I think it is about 35/135 . Nice low 2700 engagement. Orange TPI secondary spring which is wrapped at 40. Not too stiff at a lower wrap.

Is that the same helix angles as the Yamaha update for the 17 and 18 ?

 

[fourload]

Is that the same helix angles as the Yamaha update for the 17 and 18 ?

Yes just a Dalton. Also I use the pre SRX weighting in the flyweights which has more weight in the tip than the update.

 

[KnappAttack]

Hi Mike,now that you are back to stock sidewinder clutches,front and back,what helix angle do you now run? Do you still run dtya-1,s in your primary,with what primary spring now Mike. I remember you thought w/winder secondary maybe a lower angle helix,say 32. Thanks Pete

Pete,
Right now DTYA-1 empty 74.8G, Dalton Bronze primary, 35 stock helix, Stock yellow secondary spring at 3&3.

BUT it changes daily depending on conditions and whatever I feel like testing. One thing is certain. I'm set on the XS825 belt. That is one tough and grippy belt. I swear its stretched a bit from new. It's at the same height in the secondary but the deflection has grown what I'd call quite a bit. I know they say they don't stretch, but the facts don't lie.

 

[fourload]

This belt grips so well I can move the sled easily at engagement with the parking brake on which I did the other day by mistake. Almost didn’t notice it. With the JP you notice the brake right away. No movement.

 

[Sledbrapping88]

I put 20-25 miles on it, let it cool off a couple-three times in there too, It RPMS really low early on even after break in, but then will come up and stabilize. I've clutched all over the board with it, had it as hot as 195* on a setup a couple different times, pretty much abused it, but have a nice happy setup in it now and it's nice and cool now with a balanced clutch setup.

I've been back and forth between the 8JP and the XS is hands down faster by a few MPH when clutched for and RPM brought back up where it needs to be, but be warned, you will be running lighter setups to get it right, and that may include getting a lesser base weight in the primary clutch and lighter springs in the secondary or in my case, both.

So I bought a xs 825 belt for my sidewinder with hurricane ss sm tune bundle rode about 50 miles today belt looks good I have dtay 1 loaded to 78.5 with black/orange secondary spring wrapped 6-3. When I checked the belt I felt the clutches I noticed the secondary was much cooler compared to primary. So I wondering if I need to empty the dtay1 because I'm not using 8jp belt or what would you recommend

 

[ClutchMaster]

You need to remove some secondary wrap and watch your rpm’s
Assuming your running a 35 degree straight helix.
What primary spring ya got?

 

[ClutchMaster]

Probably be much closer with weights empty and 6-1 wrap.

 

[Sledbrapping88]

Probably be much closer with weights empty and 6-1 wrap.

I'm have stock primary spring and stock helix and with heavy duty rollers in secondary.

 

[KnappAttack]

So I bought a xs 825 belt for my sidewinder with hurricane ss sm tune bundle rode about 50 miles today belt looks good I have dtay 1 loaded to 78.5 with black/orange secondary spring wrapped 6-3. When I checked the belt I felt the clutches I noticed the secondary was much cooler compared to primary. So I wondering if I need to empty the dtay1 because I'm not using 8jp belt or what would you recommend

Hard for me to imagine you can get proper RPM with that much weight and that secondary spring with the XS belt. I'm running the same weights empty and just getting 8750 on the BIG tune. But its going to depend on your primary spring, secondary helix and setup as well. Every sled is going to be different somewhat. Knowing what I know now, I'd say you will be running them empty yes, but I don't know what you have for a primary spring so don't really know.

What is your wide open RPM with that much weight in it now? If its low, which I suspect its going to be, take out the weight until you get 880o or so. I used to pull much more weight than that using Yamaha belts and stiff secondary springs of course. Now with the XS belt and light springs those base weights are a size too large really.

 

[snowdust]

So I bought a xs 825 belt for my sidewinder with hurricane ss sm tune bundle rode about 50 miles today belt looks good I have dtay 1 loaded to 78.5 with black/orange secondary spring wrapped 6-3. When I checked the belt I felt the clutches I noticed the secondary was much cooler compared to primary. So I wondering if I need to empty the dtay1 because I'm not using 8jp belt or what would you recommend

It's interesting because that is very close to the setup @ROCKERDAN ran with success. I ran the same setup this last weekend and was very low on RPM. It makes sense that Knapp and Clutchmaster are saying to run significantly less weight as I found the same, but wondering why Dan ran good RPM with pretty much the same setup. He was 1g less and 10 degree less on the wrap running 9k on 270 tune.
That said.. This should probably be in its own thread. We are off topic.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Great to hear Mike! I always wondered why you were all over the place last season with things while I was so happy with things. All because of which belt!

Im setting my 850 up today now that I have 485 miles on here this weekend, from stock belt to XS. Will likely need to lighten pins. Certainly will appreciate the cleaner/cooler running XS over stocker.

Dan

 

[Fast]

I hear ya! But I don't feel the need to clutch for the ultimax when the cat belt works perfectly! I gave the ultimax a shot and it did not work on my sled
I have ran with other cat guys with different set ups including Ron's torsional kit and did not see any gains or advantages! Last season I did over 3000km on my original cat belt mostly on 270/300 tunes and I was not easy on it!!
Remember I am a high milage trail guy not a racer looking for millisecond advantages.

Hey Marc i thought you ran the stock muffler tune all last year? did you get 6000km on with 3000km on each

 

[snowbeast]

Pete,
Right now DTYA-1 empty 74.8G, Dalton Bronze primary, 35 stock helix, Stock yellow secondary spring at 3&3.

BUT it changes daily depending on conditions and whatever I feel like testing. One thing is certain. I'm set on the XS825 belt. That is one tough and grippy belt. I swear its stretched a bit from new. It's at the same height in the secondary but the deflection has grown what I'd call quite a bit. I know they say they don't stretch, but the facts don't lie.

Thanks Mike,so you are very similar to stock springs,and cam,even your Dalton blk/brz is close as well. So only change is the dtya-1 ramps empty,is this on your 270 hp tune? Now the stock winder yellow at 5.53 # of coils don't bind in stock cam? Or did you relieve something to achieve no coil bind...add .060 thou shim to cam? Mike where are your shift rpms w/this set up? I have that 825 belt from last year,with around 1000 miles on it,and it still look new,and it is broken in nice,i will play with that first,and may give stock type clutching a chance,its worth a shot. Thanks for all your great info,as always a stand up man. Pete

 

[snowbeast]

So I bought a xs 825 belt for my sidewinder with hurricane ss sm tune bundle rode about 50 miles today belt looks good I have dtay 1 loaded to 78.5 with black/orange secondary spring wrapped 6-3. When I checked the belt I felt the clutches I noticed the secondary was much cooler compared to primary. So I wondering if I need to empty the dtay1 because I'm not using 8jp belt or what would you recommend

Also what shift rpm,s were you holding on any WO blasts w/those loaded ramps,and that sticky 825?Also what tune was loaded in for that set up?