Why Yamaha Brought Back the 2-Stoke Mountain Max This Way

[MrSled]

From Sleddermag:
It's great to see Yamaha back in the mountain snowmobile segment with the Mountain Max for 2021! Many true-blue fans have asked the question why Yamaha chose to bring the 2-stroke Mountain Max back with a chassis and engine from their supply partner, rather than a Japanese-built mountain machine. We've tackled that question as we look at the 2021 Yamaha Mountain Max and take the only two pre-production sleds in existence out for a ride. Watch our video as we throw a leg over both the 154" and 165" models of Mountain Max and talk about why Yamaha brought back the 2-stroke Mountain Max the way they did, as well as what Yamaha-specific changes were made to the platform.

 

[HUNT 24/7]

Ill be interested to see how this pans out for Yamaha long term.

 

[ViperTurboPete]

A little bit of an improvement compared to my 2003 Mountain Max from back in the day! Sharp looking unit with some tech! Let's see if that motor can last as long as the old uni triple single!

 

[eou_edu]

I really don't understand the point. The all 4 stroke line might not have sold well but at least they could differentiate their product. Now the only thing yamaha does is becomes a middle man between you and arctic cat. Obviously Yamaha needs their cut so who's going to pay the middle man more money? The only chance yamaha has of selling sleds is to people that don't know any better (they seem to make no effort to hide the fact they are a blue yamaha), people who don't have an artic cat dealership anywhere close, and people who are so fiercely loyal to yamaha products they go outside of what makes practical sense.

On top of that for most riders there is very little difference between a polaris, artic cat, and ski doo. I was hoping to see yamaha do something completely different. Stick turbos on their 4 stroke motorcycle engines and put them in snowmobiles so they are an all 4 strokes turbo line that weigh the same as 2 strokes: 1 cylinder turbo 450 yfz phazer. make an all electric or hybrid snowmobile so the electric motor replaces the driver (quiet, instant torque, lightweight). Or better yet do something completely different in snow motion. cross a snowbike with a snowmobile and make something easier to ride than most snowbikes but more maneuverable than a snowmobile................ Good luck yamaha but you lost me and I'm not sure who is going to stick with yamaha at this point.

 

[74Nitro]

I really don't understand the point. The all 4 stroke line might not have sold well but at least they could differentiate their product. Now the only thing yamaha does is becomes a middle man between you and arctic cat. Obviously Yamaha needs their cut so who's going to pay the middle man more money? The only chance yamaha has of selling sleds is to people that don't know any better (they seem to make no effort to hide the fact they are a blue yamaha), people who don't have an artic cat dealership anywhere close, and people who are so fiercely loyal to yamaha products they go outside of what makes practical sense.

On top of that for most riders there is very little difference between a polaris, artic cat, and ski doo. I was hoping to see yamaha do something completely different. Stick turbos on their 4 stroke motorcycle engines and put them in snowmobiles so they are an all 4 strokes turbo line that weigh the same as 2 strokes: 1 cylinder turbo 450 yfz phazer. make an all electric or hybrid snowmobile so the electric motor replaces the driver (quiet, instant torque, lightweight). Or better yet do something completely different in snow motion. cross a snowbike with a snowmobile and make something easier to ride than most snowbikes but more maneuverable than a snowmobile................ Good luck yamaha but you lost me and I'm not sure who is going to stick with yamaha at this point.

Well there will be people that buy it just because it is Blue and says Yamaha.
Believe it or not, but I still come across snowmobilers that have no idea that Cat and Yamaha have been sharing engines and chassis for years and years. Some people just buy machines and don't read magazines or sled stuff on the internet like the rest of us.
From a business point of view, Yamaha is most likely buying the machine from Cat for a very small percentage over cost, then they mark it up and sell it. Almost no R&D costs!
Yamaha actually sells their side by sides to Yanmar, and Yanmar then puts the Yanmar name on it and sells the machines through their dealer network.

 

[74Nitro]

I really don't understand the point. The all 4 stroke line might not have sold well but at least they could differentiate their product. Now the only thing yamaha does is becomes a middle man between you and arctic cat. Obviously Yamaha needs their cut so who's going to pay the middle man more money? The only chance yamaha has of selling sleds is to people that don't know any better (they seem to make no effort to hide the fact they are a blue yamaha), people who don't have an artic cat dealership anywhere close, and people who are so fiercely loyal to yamaha products they go outside of what makes practical sense.

On top of that for most riders there is very little difference between a polaris, artic cat, and ski doo. I was hoping to see yamaha do something completely different. Stick turbos on their 4 stroke motorcycle engines and put them in snowmobiles so they are an all 4 strokes turbo line that weigh the same as 2 strokes: 1 cylinder turbo 450 yfz phazer. make an all electric or hybrid snowmobile so the electric motor replaces the driver (quiet, instant torque, lightweight). Or better yet do something completely different in snow motion. cross a snowbike with a snowmobile and make something easier to ride than most snowbikes but more maneuverable than a snowmobile................ Good luck yamaha but you lost me and I'm not sure who is going to stick with yamaha at this point.

I always thought it would have been cool if Yamaha would have beefed up the Phazer 500 4 stroke engine with lower compression to take a Turbo in the Cat chassis for mountain use.

 

[eou_edu]

Ya one of three categories of buyers: people that don't know better. But yamaha seems to make no effort in hiding this fact, I've seen it on several promotional videos. You would think they would at least try to play it off like it's their own.......... I'm not in the business I don't their rational and the number behind it. I just know they have to make money. I'm sure arctic cat cuts them a great deal on their repainted sleds. But when it all comes down to it that's just one extra middle man that doesn't need to be there. So either yamaha makes less selling a sled than cat, they charge more, or both. How much more? I would think they have to be charging at least $500-$1000 more per sled than cat for it to even be worth it.

I suppose to only two other scenarios are: they are trying to just break even in the sled market for as a place holder for a few more years as they hash out some great thing upcoming in the future. But that seems very unlikely. Or they have a double deal with cat and in return they are giving cat something in the ATV/UTV market.

 

[74Nitro]

Ya one of three categories of buyers: people that don't know better. But yamaha seems to make no effort in hiding this fact, I've seen it on several promotional videos. You would think they would at least try to play it off like it's their own.......... I'm not in the business I don't their rational and the number behind it. I just know they have to make money. I'm sure arctic cat cuts them a great deal on their repainted sleds. But when it all comes down to it that's just one extra middle man that doesn't need to be there. So either yamaha makes less selling a sled than cat, they charge more, or both. How much more? I would think they have to be charging at least $500-$1000 more per sled than cat for it to even be worth it.

I suppose to only two other scenarios are: they are trying to just break even in the sled market for as a place holder for a few more years as they hash out some great thing upcoming in the future. But that seems very unlikely. Or they have a double deal with cat and in return they are giving cat something in the ATV/UTV market.

Well I have a first hand opinion from a Cat dealer. I asked him a couple years ago what he thought of the Cat-Yamaha arrangement and he said "I wish Yamaha would just f**k off". I said why, and he said that the Winder outsells the 9000/TCat version 10-1.
There you have it, and the Cats sell for less!

 

[ccmviper]

Well I spring ordered the Mountain Max.Ive been waiting for this exact sled with a na 1049 or the 998 but it didnt happen.Next year would be year 5 for my Viper and I was ready to upgrade so thats what I did,there are alot of improvements here over my Viper.I like the cat chassis and im familiar with it,I love the looks of that sled,love the color and Im really happy with my Yamaha dealer who is alot better than the doo or cat/polaris dealer here.So Im sticking with them.The others are not good dealers at all...terrible dealers.I was disappointed too when the 2021s were announced but after the cool down and getting past the silly politics,these are all great sleds and I had all the right reasons to order one.For the future im hoping there will be an efficient co-developed direct injected engine between these two or maybe even a chassis.This seems like its going to be a long term arrangement and I hope Yamaha is pitching in alot to future development in this partnership.