2021 Release?

[journeyman]

Anyone who says the mono rides pretty good has never spent any time on a Polaris, a Ski-Doo or a Cat. Although the four-cylinder Apex engine is the best in the biz, the chassis and suspension is bottom of the barrel. If I had to go back and ride a Apex, I'd have to give up riding, and that's a fact.

Every late model snowmobile on the planet ride and handles better than a Apex. Yamaha can not design or build a chassis or suspension that rides or handles to save its soul, and I don't know why, all they have to do is look at and ride a Ski-Doo, Cat or a Polaris. Copy them, do what they do. WTF, do something different that you've done in the past. Yamaha builds a quality product, but they don't ride well, handle well, or bring a smile to your face next to the others or like they do.

I'd be so happy if they brought out a high powered Apex or a turbo Apex in a Ski-Doo chassis, but to use the same engineers and testers they have used in the past and do the same thing they have done in the past, forget it. I've owned well over 20 RX-1's and Apex Deltabox chassis, never again!

I rode Red Beard's Apex sled's up in the UP last month. I was up there with Don and we rode with Red Beard and his guy's the last day of our trip in the Keweenaw. He does those Air Wave suspension setups front and back, had 4 machines with them with it, 1 Vector and 3 Apex's. We hit a section of trail near Brockway Mnt. that was all whoops, very rough. Those Apex's he had with this conversion was like night and day better than any Apex I have ever ridden......like a carpet over that junk, I couldn't believe it. The bad part is if you are a speed junky it does scrub a bit of top end and that rear skid does not weight transfer the best. He had deeper lug tracks on them to get a better bite.

 

[20/80]

Wow some pretty good responses, but what I don't understand is why you guys never moved to Cat before the Yamaha -Cat merge, if the Yammi sleds rode so bad and were so horrible why did you stick with them? why not get a Cat, the pro cross was out before the merge, the Z1 Turbo Had lots of power, Cat has dropped the Viper engine sled now, to many problems, what will you guys do if Yamaha drops the pro cross? the pro cross won't stay together long enough to keep it for any amount of time, it can't handle the power of the 998T, this all adds up to Yamaha has built a new Chassis and its not the Blast, not long now we will know.

 

[cannondale27]

Wow some pretty good responses, but what I don't understand is why you guys never moved to Cat before the Yamaha -Cat merge, if the Yammi sleds rode so bad and were so horrible why did you stick with them? why not get a Cat, the pro cross was out before the merge, the Z1 Turbo Had lots of power, Cat has dropped the Viper engine sled now, to many problems, what will you guys do if Yamaha drops the pro cross? the pro cross won't stay together long enough to keep it for any amount of time, it can't handle the power of the 998T, this all adds up to Yamaha has built a new Chassis and its not the Blast, not long now we will know.

Hope so but it better perform like mine or better otherwise not buying it.

 

[cannondale27]

I look at the Phazer engine in a blast as a compliment to the line up, rather than the same damn thing with blue stickers. Why not appeal to the folks that truly want a 4-stroke. If they want 2-stroke, go place your order today at the AC dealer. Hell, they have blue!! And wraps are cheap.

When we owned both the SXR 500 and the Phazer FX 500, these were too hard to compare, as the chassis were so different. But the performance of the two engines were night and day. The SXR could get up to similar speed, but the phazer's torque from 0-60 was way better. And I can only assume that if that engine were in a blast chassis, it would be a hoot! Weight would be a non issue, as the power would be so much more, that it would feel light. And for those that really want it to be light, they will stay with the one-lung 400cc.

This is the same explanation why some guys will like the 800cc CTEC2 and others like the 998T in the nearly same chassis. They will want one or the other for different reasons and they compliment each other in the lineup. That's the right way to do it. It's really to the point that AC could produce the 2-stroke and Yamaha stick to the 4-stroke and life would be grand.

I know there are a ton of Yamaha fans here, that really had wished that the Phazer was announced in a more traditional chassis. And even more begged to have it dropped into a ProCross chassis later on as a starter sled. I truly believe that if the Blast chassis was co-developed to accept either engine, that they have a winner on board. And the blast chassis is a better size for that 85hp Phazer Engine, than the ProCross.

If it doesn't come, I see the next custom sled build.

I would love a Phazer that handles like the Blast but not going to get it stuffing a Phazer motor in there. Your missing the whole point of the Blast. It’s easy and fun to ride and light years ahead in handling even for a beginner. If Yamaha can get Phazer motor in there and have same feel I would buy 3! Not going to happen.

 

[journeyman]

Wow some pretty good responses, but what I don't understand is why you guys never moved to Cat before the Yamaha -Cat merge, if the Yammi sleds rode so bad and were so horrible why did you stick with them? why not get a Cat, the pro cross was out before the merge, the Z1 Turbo Had lots of power, Cat has dropped the Viper engine sled now, to many problems, what will you guys do if Yamaha drops the pro cross? the pro cross won't stay together long enough to keep it for any amount of time, it can't handle the power of the 998T, this all adds up to Yamaha has built a new Chassis and its not the Blast, not long now we will know.

To be honest I always felt Cat was the lowest denominator on the reliability list. When they first merged in 2014 I went and rode the test Vipers. I did like the seating position and overall handling but was disappointed in the power delivery of the 1049cc in this application. They had one in the test fleet of demo's that went much better like a well setup Nytro like my buddy had but the other 5 were pooches. (yes I know of the ignitions) I did hear over the following years that Yamaha was spending lots of time in the Cat factory getting things in check as for quality. IMHO their quality has improved but not to the level of a true Yamaha yet. The gear box is still a sore spot and the use of cheap bearings all around is a joke. How much would it cost to put some decent NSK bearings on it?

I had a 2017 STX DX Sidewinder last year. It was a decent sled but did have just the basic shocks in it. I would say that was the weak point, it needed better shocks and in the junky stuff it wasn't a whole lot better than my Attak for ride quality. The good Fox QS3's are a huge upgrade and I have ridden them back to back. I did not have any issues with my SW but my buddy did. His did blow belts but it really needed the back of the secondary machined to get his offset in check but was never done, it had the 240/270/290 flash and CAI setup so it was not stock and as Knapp has done tons of testing we know heat is an issue with CAI kits...(Venting). He also had a pretty bad oil leak from the chaincase that was frustrating him and we all know the track record on chain cases....keep an eye on them. He ended up selling it and all his sleds for a side by side. So I felt my normal ride crew had busted up and saw my big trips fading into the dusk so I sold the Winder last December. I really did not want $10K into a sled I was lucky to ride maybe a week per year. It doesn't snow around here much anymore, last year it did and then the locals never groomed.

I still have my old Attak and it looks and runs flawless. I had sold it to a guy that only put 300 miles on it and suddenly he had heart issues so I bought it back just so I had something to ride if the opportunity came up, which did with Don this year. With the little bit I have invested in the old one I don't lose any sleep when we have ANOTHER crappy winter. My biggest curiousity on these Yama/Cats is........how will they be in 10-15 years? Will we see guys riding them with 15-20,000 miles on them?

 

[TPAY243]

The Phazer engine is on the same ship with the Apex engine and has long since sailed away and will not be seen again. Yamaha is done building snowmachine specific engines. If it can't be used in an Snowmachine,ATV,SXS,or watercraft you will not see it.

 

[cannondale27]

To be honest I always felt Cat was the lowest denominator on the reliability list. When they first merged in 2014 I went and rode the test Vipers. I did like the seating position and overall handling but was disappointed in the power delivery of the 1049cc in this application. They had one in the test fleet of demo's that went much better like a well setup Nytro like my buddy had but the other 5 were pooches. (yes I know of the ignitions) I did hear over the following years that Yamaha was spending lots of time in the Cat factory getting things in check as for quality. IMHO their quality has improved but not to the level of a true Yamaha yet. The gear box is still a sore spot and the use of cheap bearings all around is a joke. How much would it cost to put some decent NSK bearings on it?

I had a 2017 STX DX Sidewinder last year. It was a decent sled but did have just the basic shocks in it. I would say that was the weak point, it needed better shocks and in the junky stuff it wasn't a whole lot better than my Attak for ride quality. The good Fox QS3's are a huge upgrade and I have ridden them back to back. I did not have any issues with my SW but my buddy did. His did blow belts but it really needed the back of the secondary machined to get his offset in check but was never done, it had the 240/270/290 flash and CAI setup so it was not stock and as Knapp has done tons of testing we know heat is an issue with CAI kits...(Venting). He also had a pretty bad oil leak from the chaincase that was frustrating him and we all know the track record on chain cases....keep an eye on them. He ended up selling it and all his sleds for a side by side. So I felt my normal ride crew had busted up and saw my big trips fading into the dusk so I sold the Winder last December. I really did not want $10K into a sled I was lucky to ride maybe a week per year. It doesn't snow around here much anymore, last year it did and then the locals never groomed.

I still have my old Attak and it looks and runs flawless. I had sold it to a guy that only put 300 miles on it and suddenly he had heart issues so I bought it back just so I had something to ride if the opportunity came up, which did with Don this year. With the little bit I have invested in the old one I don't lose any sleep when we have ANOTHER crappy winter. My biggest curiousity on these Yama/Cats is........how will they be in 10-15 years? Will we see guys riding them with 15-20,000 miles on them?

Mine has 16000mi on it right now. Any other questions?

 

[biffdotorg]

Cat has dropped the Viper engine sled now, to many problems, .

Says who that the entire 2021 line has been released? We have seen the pre-release models so far, but I don't think anyone said the entire AC lineup has been announced yet.

I would put money on us seeing either the 1049 being used one more year, or the NA998 in cat and/or Yamaha. It would leave too big of a hole in the line up if they were gone. In other words, the 1049 will not go away, unless replaced with the NA998, and that is yet to be seen.

I don't see the 7000 series in the 2021 Snomageddon pre order so far either. I could be way wrong. But all the crybabies on the HCS are saying fourstrokes are gone for 2021 too. So silly they are, they didn't even see the 9000 series and the 120/200 sleds.

 

[journeyman]

Mine has 16000mi on it right now. Any other questions?

The Viper....we'll see on the 998T. Did you change out the stock bearings? Any gear box issues? I feel gearbox issues may show up more on the 998T models being the high HP levels some are running them at.

 

[OVR4D]

I would love a Phazer that handles like the Blast but not going to get it stuffing a Phazer motor in there. Your missing the whole point of the Blast. It’s easy and fun to ride and light years ahead in handling even for a beginner. If Yamaha can get Phazer motor in there and have same feel I would buy 3! Not going to happen.

I'm with Cannondale on this ... I've long since wanted to build a small, lightweight sled with power at this level. Cat did a lot of things right with the Blast in my opinion. I know many would disagree, but the one thing I wish a manufacturer would do is actually make the sled smaller in scale. I haven't seen the Blast up close yet, but it appears to be closer to full size than a true mid-sized machine. That said, I do think the short track version (ZR) will be a fun sled, although I wonder whether it could benefit from a taller lug track (like the freeride) for playing in drift-blown ditches and open fields. We know this is a budget minded sled, so suspension upgrades would be nice, but do you really think anyone would be willing to drop more money on the Blast if they offered better shocks? As for stuffing a 4T under the hood, while I would love to have the reliability, I have to agree that it wouldn't be the same playful sled. But a 4T might be a good fit for the long tracked models. One thing I really love about 4T sleds is their ability to "tractor" through deep snow. If you do any off-trial riding, you know what I mean. 4T engines have usable bottom-end torque that lets you get into places without trenching (most of the time) better than their 2T counterparts. A 2T sled requires maintaining track speed to stay aloft. And as soon as you stop, and start up again you run a better chance of trenching than you do when on a 4T sled. I'm not talking about deep and steep riding ... I'm a flatlander. I love being able to crawl along in the woods, or pastures where the off-trial snow isn't too deep, which is mostly what you'll get in the Midwest. And so to me, a 4T (M) version of the Blast would make sense. One last question for anyone considering the Blast: If Cat were to rebrand the Blast for Yamaha, why do you believe, if you do believe, that a rebranded Yamaha version would be better than the Cat version? Just curious why some folks here are saying they want to wait to see if Yamaha will offer this sled too.

 

[20/80]

To be honest I always felt Cat was the lowest denominator on the reliability list. When they first merged in 2014 I went and rode the test Vipers. I did like the seating position and overall handling but was disappointed in the power delivery of the 1049cc in this application. They had one in the test fleet of demo's that went much better like a well setup Nytro like my buddy had but the other 5 were pooches. (yes I know of the ignitions) I did hear over the following years that Yamaha was spending lots of time in the Cat factory getting things in check as for quality. IMHO their quality has improved but not to the level of a true Yamaha yet. The gear box is still a sore spot and the use of cheap bearings all around is a joke. How much would it cost to put some decent NSK bearings on it?

I had a 2017 STX DX Sidewinder last year. It was a decent sled but did have just the basic shocks in it. I would say that was the weak point, it needed better shocks and in the junky stuff it wasn't a whole lot better than my Attak for ride quality. The good Fox QS3's are a huge upgrade and I have ridden them back to back. I did not have any issues with my SW but my buddy did. His did blow belts but it really needed the back of the secondary machined to get his offset in check but was never done, it had the 240/270/290 flash and CAI setup so it was not stock and as Knapp has done tons of testing we know heat is an issue with CAI kits...(Venting). He also had a pretty bad oil leak from the chaincase that was frustrating him and we all know the track record on chain cases....keep an eye on them. He ended up selling it and all his sleds for a side by side. So I felt my normal ride crew had busted up and saw my big trips fading into the dusk so I sold the Winder last December. I really did not want $10K into a sled I was lucky to ride maybe a week per year. It doesn't snow around here much anymore, last year it did and then the locals never groomed.

I still have my old Attak and it looks and runs flawless. I had sold it to a guy that only put 300 miles on it and suddenly he had heart issues so I bought it back just so I had something to ride if the opportunity came up, which did with Don this year. With the little bit I have invested in the old one I don't lose any sleep when we have ANOTHER crappy winter. My biggest curiousity on these Yama/Cats is........how will they be in 10-15 years? Will we see guys riding them with 15-20,000 miles on them?

Glad that your still in the game, yeah.. that's what I have been saying the ride quality is not that much of a improvement over the Apex but the way some guy's go on that our suspension is like sitting on a anvil which is not true, could not ask for any better on groomed trails, good luck for anyone selling or trading a winder with 20,000 miles on them and get a decent trade in value, Viper would be even harder with that mileage, kinda sad for the amount you have to pay for these sleds today, big loss.

 

[20/80]

I'm with Cannondale on this ... I've long since wanted to build a small, lightweight sled with power at this level. Cat did a lot of things right with the Blast in my opinion. I know many would disagree, but the one thing I wish a manufacturer would do is actually make the sled smaller in scale. I haven't seen the Blast up close yet, but it appears to be closer to full size than a true mid-sized machine. That said, I do think the short track version (ZR) will be a fun sled, although I wonder whether it could benefit from a taller lug track (like the freeride) for playing in drift-blown ditches and open fields. We know this is a budget minded sled, so suspension upgrades would be nice, but do you really think anyone would be willing to drop more money on the Blast if they offered better shocks? As for stuffing a 4T under the hood, while I would love to have the reliability, I have to agree that it wouldn't be the same playful sled. But a 4T might be a good fit for the long tracked models. One thing I really love about 4T sleds is their ability to "tractor" through deep snow. If you do any off-trial riding, you know what I mean. 4T engines have usable bottom-end torque that lets you get into places without trenching (most of the time) better than their 2T counterparts. A 2T sled requires maintaining track speed to stay aloft. And as soon as you stop, and start up again you run a better chance of trenching than you do when on a 4T sled. I'm not talking about deep and steep riding ... I'm a flatlander. I love being able to crawl along in the woods, or pastures where the off-trial snow isn't too deep, which is mostly what you'll get in the Midwest. And so to me, a 4T (M) version of the Blast would make sense. One last question for anyone considering the Blast: If Cat were to rebrand the Blast for Yamaha, why do you believe, if you do believe, that a rebranded Yamaha version would be better than the Cat version? Just curious why some folks here are saying they want to wait to see if Yamaha will offer this sled too.

The very same reason they buy and pay more for the rebranded Yamaha version of the thunder Cat.

 

[KnappAttack]

Wow some pretty good responses, but what I don't understand is why you guys never moved to Cat before the Yamaha -Cat merge, if the Yammi sleds rode so bad and were so horrible why did you stick with them? why not get a Cat, the pro cross was out before the merge, the Z1 Turbo Had lots of power, Cat has dropped the Viper engine sled now, to many problems, what will you guys do if Yamaha drops the pro cross? the pro cross won't stay together long enough to keep it for any amount of time, it can't handle the power of the 998T, this all adds up to Yamaha has built a new Chassis and its not the Blast, not long now we will know.

I moved to Ski-Doo 1200 four-strokes in 09 and tried a couple of Cats in there between, a 09 Z1 turbo and a 2012 Turbo ProCross, both a couple of POS machines, I also tried a power steering Apex in there and sold that right quick. Nothing on the Apex was worth keeping it around. Even my kids wouldn't ride it after owning a bunch of awesome 1200 Doos that rode and handled so much better than the heavy tank, poor riding Apex.

I had numerous 1200 Doo's both NA and turboed. Every single one would make me laugh in my helmet. My NA 1200's would thump the pumped up Apex's and the 800's and the turbo 1200's were just awesome and actually would take down tuned Winders and were wild to ride, they were a handful to say the least. So as you see I rode and owned other machines and not just the Apex's.

If Cat/Yamaha were to drop by the wayside, I'd be on a 900 Turbo Doo in a heartbeat. Nothing else one the market to own if the Winder and T-Cat go away.

 

[cannondale27]

The Viper....we'll see on the 998T. Did you change out the stock bearings? Any gear box issues? I feel gearbox issues may show up more on the 998T models being the high HP levels some are running them at.

Changed out stock bearings at 9000mi just because. Looked like new. Only gearbox issues were Reverse actuator twice and upper gear bushing every season. Yup not as much power as Sidewinder but I am at 108mph documented and ride the living crap out of the thing. Chassis is fatigued but at this mileage ridden likewise I have seen Apex's fold in half. Its a snowmobile!

 

[cannondale27]

I'm with Cannondale on this ... I've long since wanted to build a small, lightweight sled with power at this level. Cat did a lot of things right with the Blast in my opinion. I know many would disagree, but the one thing I wish a manufacturer would do is actually make the sled smaller in scale. I haven't seen the Blast up close yet, but it appears to be closer to full size than a true mid-sized machine. That said, I do think the short track version (ZR) will be a fun sled, although I wonder whether it could benefit from a taller lug track (like the freeride) for playing in drift-blown ditches and open fields. We know this is a budget minded sled, so suspension upgrades would be nice, but do you really think anyone would be willing to drop more money on the Blast if they offered better shocks? As for stuffing a 4T under the hood, while I would love to have the reliability, I have to agree that it wouldn't be the same playful sled. But a 4T might be a good fit for the long tracked models. One thing I really love about 4T sleds is their ability to "tractor" through deep snow. If you do any off-trial riding, you know what I mean. 4T engines have usable bottom-end torque that lets you get into places without trenching (most of the time) better than their 2T counterparts. A 2T sled requires maintaining track speed to stay aloft. And as soon as you stop, and start up again you run a better chance of trenching than you do when on a 4T sled. I'm not talking about deep and steep riding ... I'm a flatlander. I love being able to crawl along in the woods, or pastures where the off-trial snow isn't too deep, which is mostly what you'll get in the Midwest. And so to me, a 4T (M) version of the Blast would make sense. One last question for anyone considering the Blast: If Cat were to rebrand the Blast for Yamaha, why do you believe, if you do believe, that a rebranded Yamaha version would be better than the Cat version? Just curious why some folks here are saying they want to wait to see if Yamaha will offer this sled too.

My answer to your question. WARRANTY. Especially on a first year model. Yamahas warranty and a great dealer like I have is a awesome combo that cant be beat. And my Family really like Blue! If they dont offer a Yamaha version I will wait for a used one to come up. Probably would be smart thing to do anyhow $ wise. A $2-3000 Discount for a Chassis at least in front that I know and $5000 or so would make it even more fun even if its green and ugly. I did same thing with 800RR I own now after 10 years straight of suffering with only Yamaha. When I bought my Viper I could have gotten a new leftover RR for almost $3000 less. I had ridden Procross chassis enough to know I liked it. Was a very tough choice but basically this site and my great Yamaha experience with the Warranty, engines and clutching is what made my choice for Viper. Now I own both. I am Yamaha loyal but if ride enjoyment and to a point $ are at stake I will not compromise just out of loyalty. My enjoyment and financial well being come before Corporate Yamaha especially after the yearly screwing they have put all of us through.