Colorado skiing... is the VK pro a good choice for me.

[coloradoskier]

I am looking into purchasing my first snowmobile. Although my extended family got me on a sled young I have not pursued snowmobiling as an adult. After tasting some sick powder off a snowmobile for minimal hiking and considering where I live, I've finally realized a snowmobile is a neccesary tool in getting around in the mountains in winter.

I live in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. I want a snowmobile that I can ride 2 up on and pull 1-2 more people on groomed and ungroomed trails. I want a sled I can take off trail, but not jump or highmark. I want to be able to break my own trail; but I'm not going to be doing any crazy hill climbing. I do need to be able to ride the sled in powder off trail up hills, and we get TONS of powder here. My attraction to the 4-stoke is more torque, less noisy, and doesn't stink. I also want to be able to put skis and gear on the thing for 2 people overnight. I am 160lbs.

My friends all swear by 2-stroke mountain sleds for around here, but they all go riding just to ride them and jump and highmark their sleds. Their sleds are all long track mountain sleds, usually 700-800 2-stroke. They say the 4-strokes dog. The VK weighs 850 lbs; their sleds weigh 500 and produce the same amount of power. But they are no good for riding 2-up cause there is no seat and they stink so when we ride two we always ride rodeo. Their sleds are loud an always break down. However, when out riding with them I see almost no one with 4-stroke sleds (0nly one I know of and he turboed his just to keep up). But none of them are geared for skiing off of primarily. Our ski resort uses RS Ventures, but they don't ever break trail. When I mean break trail I am not talking about riding a groomed trail with fresh powder on it, I am talking about going off trail.

I am good with ropes and can set up a z-drag to get the heavy sled out more easily. I can see digging this thing out is going to be a chore. I am hoping with it's wide track I won't be getting stuck in the powder often unless I make a mistake riding it, which is bound to happen as I learn how to ride a sled in the Colorado mountians. It is important to me to be able to bring people out comfortably skiing off of my new machine.

So what's the deal? All of you guys seem to use this sled for either grooming mellow cross country ski trails or getting somewhere in the frozen tundra with gear. Any of you guys have experience opperating this sled at altitudes between 8,000-12,000+ feet in Colorado or equivelent high mountain snow land. Am I going to be buying an expensive lemming that my friends are all going to laugh at me with when I am rigging a z-drag to dig it out for the 8th time of the day? Or is this sled going to be my dream rig that can haul people and gear with ease, ride 2-up and not be getting stuck all them time, and not break down every 500 miles. And why are there seemingly no after market tracks for this sled with 2+ inch powder lugs. Does it not need them because of the extra width, or am I just a misguided newbie looking at a sled designed for artic tundra utility when I should be looking at a 2-stroke mountain sled. Also, I see overheating can be an issue. If it can be an issue it will be an issue where I live. Charging up hills at altitude with 2 skiers in tow riding 2 up is bound to bring out any problems with over heating. How much does it cost to add the second radiator as you guys seem to have done, or is that much less strain than towing a groomer at lower altitudes?

Also, I can get a pretty nice 2-stroke mountain sled all set up for this area with 2,000 miles on it for 3,000-4,000 dollars around here. I am very mechanical and do all my own work on my car and will learn snowmobiles; it doesn't bother me to work on my own machine, infact I don't like bringing anything to the shop. The 4-stroke will be extra money, but think it might be worth it to not smell like a lumber jack at the end of the day and get horse from the fumes. Plus I like not having to deal with a mix or be putting oil in a resevoir.

Please let me know what you'all think. Will this sled be good for skiing off of in the mountains of Colorado mostly on, but sometimes off trail with at least 2up and sometimes 1-2 in tow?

 

[eric3793]

You will have alot of fun with a VK but you really should talk to someone in your area that uses one off trail. I do alot of off trail riding here in Maine but the snow is not like your powder. Just two weeks ago a friend with a Bearcat and I did about 20 miles of off trail riding and we had a great time. I would never do that type of riding alone because unless you have someone with an equal machine to tow you out, all the fun stops. Getting any 850 lb. sled stuck in deep powder is not fun when you are alone. The VK will pull better that most utility sleds and with the 11" Yamaha ski skins or the Simmons Gen II skis, it will float in powder alot better than with the stock skis. I carry snow shoes, a small chain saw, 100' of rope and a rope come-a-long. Yamaha sells a winch mount kit but I don't think it is worth hauling around all the time where the little come-a-long fits under the seat with the rope.

I have nearly 4000 miles on my '08 VK without any issues at all.

 

[coloradoskier]

thanks. You are totally right on. I am a telemark skier and carry skins all the time, plus I have considerable experience in the winter without a sled. I will be riding with other people, as a lot of my friends have sleds and that is why I want one. I just want one more for skiing more then for just riding. If I wanted one for riding around it would be a 2-stroke mountain sled. I want to know if this sled will pull skiers in tow and ride 2-up and if it can handle powder off trail. We have many places with snowcat mainted trails for riding snowmobiles and skiing. Most of my riding will be on these trails or unmainted dirt roads that are covered with snow. But it is necessary to be able to go off trail without problems.

I've dug out a few stuck sleds, one really stuck in a creek bed with like 10ft of powder, and can't imagine if it wieghed 850lbs. With 2-3 people and a rope and pulley system it is possible.

Also, do you think a 800cc 2 stroke mountain could pull this sled out if it were broke down? Seems like all the people I know with sleds need to tow them sometime.

 

[idaho_h2o]

It might work but I don't think it would be ideal. I have never ridden a vk pro but I do use my vk 540 the same way you plan to. I am in the process of lightening it up- my goal is to be well under 550 lbs, the claimed dry weight is 609. I am in N Idaho, the area I play in received well over 400 inches last year, and I really hate getting stuck, especially since half the time I am alone. I always have skis and bivy gear but it's still not fun to get a big sled stuck by yourself. With an 850lb sled, there is no way I would venture off trail by myself.

I think there is not a perfect sled for those of us that want to be able to go where the mountain sleds go but need all the features of a wide track.

If you are looking for a new sled you might try an XU from ski doo. Would be much better for the off trail part (not sure if there is a 4 stroke though). If I had the money to spend on a new sled for skiing that's what I would get, lighten it up a bit and add the 1.5 xcavator track (which is the largest lug you can get with a widetrack AFAIK).

It seems the older sleds are better in regards to weight and it is easier to justify ripping it up to save weight. Any of the fan wide tracks will be better for the trail breaking in the mountains part. A few years ago the weight difference wasn't that great between utility and mountain sleds, it seems it's going the wrong way now. It would be great if they made a stripped utility sled that was not too much heavier than the new mtn sleds.

My experiences come from trying to get to the same kind of terrain the mtn sleds do to ski, not necessarily from extensive sled knowledge, so I'm sure some won't share my opinion on the need for a lightweight WT.

 

[coloradoskier]

yeah. It would be sweet to take a mountain sled and put a 2up seat on it.

what you are saying makes perfect sense. I am not in the market for a new sled, unless it is a new sled from a few years ago, like an new 08 when the 10 come out. All my friends use mountain sleds and echo that sentiment. If I just buy a mountain sled that's a few years old I will save a ton of money and will be going with a sled I know is proven.

I wish there was a lightweight wide track mountain sled with a 2 up configuration and rack and 4 stroke.

I'm interested to see if anyone from our area, that is the rockies likes the vkpro for the area.

 

[eric3793]

It sounds like you know what you're doing. The VK is one of the most powerful utility sleds available. It will do all the things you have mentioned although do not expect a light sled to tow it except on groomed level trails. Maybe two mountain sleds could tow it. These things are so reliable I don't think anyone will be towing it except to help get it un-stuck.

The reason I have owned several utility sleds over the years is to get into remote camps. We often have deep snow that standard sleds cannot manage...mountain sleds do fine but I'm usually towing a large sled full of gear. We also haul wood and water in cargo sleds that exceed 1/2 ton. Mountain sleds do not have the frame strength to haul loads like this.

The VK would be one heck of a "first sled". Once you get used to riding one you will like it. It is sort of a dual purpose sled because I also ride long trips (250 miles/day) when on groomed trails in northern Maine. It has low range for tough pulling and high range that tops out over 90 mph on hard trails.

It's quite a treat to get on my wife's sled for a change...it's a light Skidoo that feels like a feather after riding the VK.

If you are sure that the Venture 2 passenger is not enough for your needs than the VK would be the next step. If for some reason you wanted to sell it, used VKs are in high demand by clubs in these parts.

Talk to a dealer to find out who has one. I would be curious to know how folks like the VK in the deep western powder. Oh yeah, they are top heavy and tippy. You may have read in another post that I put mine on its side a couple of weeks ago. It took two of us to get it uprite. The 11" skis made this more difficult.

Let us know if you get one!

 

[coloradoskier]

what do you think would be better:

Venture with 2+ inch lug track and wide skins

vs.

VK pro stock track, wide skins

 

[tmk50]

If you are dead set on a two up sled - get the Venture. You will hate the VK for what you are trying to do in my opinion that is way too much of a pig to do anything from December - February. Once March hits you may do OK with it once the snow sets up.....

If I were you I would find a used Nytro or Apex, and make that work if you want a 4 stroke. I know they don't have a 2 up seat, but you would be MUCH happier.

I have almost 4,000 miles on my Apex Mtn, I ride with the 800 2 strokes every weekend - they will always climb higher than I do and are easier to dig out. But I put the cheap gas in, and only spend $30 a year on oil, and my sled starts right up every morning no matter how cold it is. I can go all the same places they do, but just not as high on the steep hills.

For the money you will dump on a VK or a Venture, you can probably find an Apex for a lot less, and have enough left over for some mods to make it lighter (front/rear suspension, seat/exhaust, etc.)

 

[eric3793]

You are all correct that there is no perfect machine. 4-stroke means weight. One of the best machines made for the uses mentioned by Coloradoskier (towing, deep snow & light) would be a 440 Bearcat that had the 156"X15" track. I see them for sale up here occasionally for $2500 with fairly low milage. This machine would do ALMOST everything except groom trails for hours at a time or haul really heavy loads. But towing a couple of CC skiers would be easy. The 600SDI Skidoo XU with a 156"X20"X1.5" would be interesting. Great lightweight motor and nice suspension. It would still be heavy at 630lbs. but that is 150lbs less than the VK's published weight.

What am I talking about here...we are Yamaha fans. Shame on me. But I gotta agree on one point...the VK, as much as I love mine, may not be the best machine for Coloradoskier.

 

[coloradoskier]

the more I research this the more I think my best bet will be an 800cc 2-stroke mountain sled...BRRRRAAAAPPPP!!! It will be the most versitile machine and I will be able to keep up with my friends. It won't ride 2-up but I could get a cheap 2-up sled and have two. I could purchase both machines for less than one vk pro, and probably would have more fun on them.

I hesitate to get a sled with a 440 motor. U loose 3% HP for each 1,000 ft of elevation gain. The smallest motors I see are 550, but most people rock 700+ cc motors.

Having said that it is a shame that there isn't a 4-stroke out there for my purpose. I guess it all boils down to power vs. weight. I just hate the smell and noise of the 2-strokes. Maybe someday there will be a perfect sled for what I have in mind.

 

[eric3793]

The oil you choose effects odor. I like Amsoil but I've heard Klotz actually smells good. The Skidoo brand oil really stinks.

You should be able to get a great deal on a mountain sled. I see them on Ebay and I used this to bargin with my local dealer. Alot of dealers are dropping $2000 or more off the list price of new sleds just to clear out inventory.

It warms my heart to see a telemark skier get into snowmobiling.

 

[coloradoskier]

the way I see it out here we have wilderness, and I am not a fascist, is that so long as there are areas where snowmobiles can't go I don't see a problem with them. In the case of Colorado many of the wilderness areas are sorrounded by national forest or public land that is motorized, often by cars or jeeps in the summer. It is so hard to get to some of the really cool places in the winter that you can easily in the summer by driving. That's why I thought the VK would be a cool vehicle for what I want to do because most of my riding would be on roads or trails with 1 other person to go hiking and ski some awesome terrain I wouldn't dream of driving a snowmobile up. I'm going to be using my sled to access areas where you cannot ride them, sometimes overnight with 1 other person.

Back east it is an issue in many areas. When I lived in NY I lived on Lake George for awhile. You could hear the boats, mostly the waverunners for miles. In the winter the sounds carries and really effects the experience for people wanting a wilderness experience.

As long as we aren't fascists about it, I am sure there is room for both sports. People just get way to bent about stuff.

I found out Ski-Doo offers a 2 up seat for the rev-xp platform with a backrest. Plenty of room for gear on the tunner (thinking some sore of custom ski gear rack would go well there), and like a 162 inch track with powder track designed for highmarking up nasty #*$&@ might be the ticket. I'll just have to find out about that oil (thanks Eric) Maybe they make some that smells like burning ganga. And best of all I bet if I wait till the summer time I could find one around 4,000 with minimal miles.

 

[low slung]

Two YAMAHA sleds i would recommend are the VENTURE MP and the VENTURE TF(151inch track version of the venture rs)but there not sold in the U.S.One sled that would meet your needs is the SKI-DOO skandic 600 E-TEC in the new REV platform.Two-up seat,very light weight,and excellent MPG(18-22)with low emission.I rode a two-up touring version of this sled two weeks ago,best two-up sled i every rode.The skandic version is more suited to pull big loads(meets your needs).

 

[karl]

hey colorado skier, here is my solution to the same problem. bought this sled for the same situation. extensively modified venture mp with a 159x16x2 track. I strap a snowboard on each side of the tunnel and ride two up. two back country packs get strapped down on the rear deck. This rig will climb fairly steep terrain two up and will go just about any where in deep snow riden solo.

 

[eric3793]

Now that's a nice looking Yamaha! I have a VK but am considering a light sled to play on...like the XTX. How would your Venture stack up against the XTX or a Renegade 600 etec in deep powder?

A paddle track would not work well in Maine because we ride the groomed trails alot just to get to the off-trail riding.