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Possible kickback solution?

Can you explain more about solid State relays? How do they works vs Viper relays?
 

grizztracks said:
I'd really like to know the logic behind the "engine kickback feature"................. Is it simply disabling the ignition outputs if a low voltage to the ECU is detected? I'm thinking so!
Click to expand...

I have been talking with a person that gonna help me more after his christmas/new years holiday. One idee he has is that ECU going in some restart process-mode during voltage drops or power failure. And when ECU does that the ignitions coils fires one spark plug when some of the piston is in wrong position.

For what I understand, the only thing that could damage starting gear is when engine rotate backwards.
 
I'm not sure if there is a direct solid state replacement yet. My preference would be to eliminate the need for so many relays and run the power feeds direct off a switched power source like the Nytro systems does. Relays are very useful when used properly but sometimes they're over utilized in circuits. One fuel pump relay is all that was needed to run the engine.

It appears to me this system was not a new design for the marriage of the chassis and engine but instead an old system modified to accept the Yamaha engine.
 
Has Yamaha Vector the same wiring and ECU like the Nytro?
 
...And the people with starting problems and gear failures I talk with have notice their blinking guages. Bought new batteries and still have blinking gauges when cranking..!??

I have never had blinking gauges when I cranking and starting the engine. And I never had a misfire.
 
Janne339 said:
...And the people with starting problems and gear failures I talk with have notice their blinking guages. Bought new batteries and still have blinking gauges when cranking..!??

I have never had blinking gauges when I cranking and starting the engine. And I never had a misfire.
Click to expand...
I to have not had any of the issues to the extreme that most have reported however that does not mean that the issues are not real. It s more likely that I have not yet had the part or parts fail that would cause the starter to break as it misfires. Unlikely also is that it is a one issue problem, more likely a combination of failures to culminate into the common issue. The issue could be 1, 2, 3 or more independent but common problems, while on there own would only cause a minor inconvenience (low battery, bad relay, small wire, weak starter etc..) but together in any random combination could expose a design flaw in one or more parts.

Some may disagree with this rational, however my Sr Viper RTX-SE 14 w/turbo so far runs great. Others as well have hundreds and thousands of miles with minor issues and some with no issues at all, leading one to realize that the overall design is solid. Yamaha and Arctic Cat do not make every part that is installed on the sled. Some parts are sourced according to spec. Some times one part will fail, easy to find, easy fix. But if two or three start to fail, one affecting the performance of another it can be very trick to identify the culprit (failing part/parts).
 
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Grizztracks,
Have you compared how schematic is done in Cat Suzuki Turbo? Cat Suzuki turbo use four 4-pin (20A) relays and two 5-pin (30A) relays.
 
Another "interesting observation" Long Story.
Decided to add a Seat Heater for those long cold rides. I am cheap and lazy so I used a Moose brand and went right to the battery with a fuse and switch. Worked great but I left it on one night since switch is hidden under seat by latch. Decided to add a LED light to it. Simple. Red +on led to Red+ on seat heater. Black on LED to ground. Using test light I found there to be ground at the seat latch so I put it there. Walla light on when seat is on.
Now the weird. Start the sled and light goes out but seat heater still works! Determined that the light on seat bracket is grounding through the fuel pump. When running ground is lost because fuel pump is running. Question: Is the Starter Solenoid which is also mounted to same bracket sucking ground from fuel pump at startup? Should we isolate that? Noticed Solenoids on all other Yamahas and all my toys the starter Solenoid is always Isolated from ground.
 
cannondale27 said:
Another "interesting observation" Long Story.
Decided to add a Seat Heater for those long cold rides. I am cheap and lazy so I used a Moose brand and went right to the battery with a fuse and switch. Worked great but I left it on one night since switch is hidden under seat by latch. Decided to add a LED light to it. Simple. Red +on led to Red+ on seat heater. Black on LED to ground. Using test light I found there to be ground at the seat latch so I put it there. Walla light on when seat is on.
Now the weird. Start the sled and light goes out but seat heater still works! Determined that the light on seat bracket is grounding through the fuel pump. When running ground is lost because fuel pump is running. Question: Is the Starter Solenoid which is also mounted to same bracket sucking ground from fuel pump at startup? Should we isolate that? Noticed Solenoids on all other Yamahas and all my toys the starter Solenoid is always Isolated from ground.
Click to expand...
Are the LED and the heater going to the same ground point and did you check voltage drop across the LED after you started the engine.
http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~hamilton/phys258/N/led.pdf The load in the circuit, the seat heater is a resistive load with respect to the voltage and will work when other nonresistive loads may not. If the seat heater and LED are grounding thru the fuel pump I might try bringing the ground to the battery with a jumper and see what happens while leaving the sled wiring original.
 
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Mike P said:
Are the LED and the heater going to the same ground point and did you check voltage drop across the LED after you started the engine.
http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~hamilton/phys258/N/led.pdf The load in the circuit, the seat heater is a resistive load with respect to the voltage and will work when other nonresistive loads will not. If the seat heater and LEDE are grounding thru the fuel pump I might try bringing the ground to the battery with a jumper and see what happens while leaving the sled wiring original.
Click to expand...
Seat heater is grounding to battery. I put the led ground at battery now also and it works fine. Just thought it was odd there is ground at pump bracket till running and that solenoid is on that bracket.
 
cannondale27 said:
Seat heater is grounding to battery. I put the led ground at battery now also and it works fine. Just thought it was odd there is ground at pump bracket till running and that solenoid is on that bracket.
Click to expand...
It is very odd for sure.
 
I am new to the viper just got a used one with 1400kms 2014. Love the sled but was concerned the first time i had my engine "kick back" i figured i had let go of the starter befor it actually started. Now reading the same issues lots of people hav listed i became concerned there was an issue amd their is. Because it has hammened to me a few times now. This post nails it smack on from my persional experience. It sounded to me like the starter drew to much power an just only cranked till it cut out or couldnt do its job. So today i pulled my seat and load tested my battery. At static it was 12.1 thats low in my books for a battery that was just drove into a shop and shut off. Thwn i did a load test and with i believe it was 100amps loaded jist on the battery it went down to 9 volts.... thats way to low...... so i pulled my batt that i had on shelf from my harley and loaded it and it only dropped down to 11.6 volts. Thats been sittin on a shelf not charged since fall. After switching my batt now it fires rite up instantly. I did look at the size of wire and its prob close to ok but by no means is how i will leav it. This summer i will be running a larger hot and ground wire. I am going on a good trip this weekend so i will know for shure how this all plays out. If this is the problem my conclusion is that the battery is on some sleds get weak but still just able to start the sled just barley. And also with the smaller wires running for the starter just adds more resistance to the circuit. This could cause the relays to open and close and a whole list of other issues. If this does fix for me i will be buying a gell battery the highest cca rated i can and larger cables.
 
Fwiw...14 ltx. 1900 miles. Factory original flash, stock battery always on a tender when parked, never had a kickback.
 
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