The heavy

[kinger]

My 151, SC apex with STOCK seat, exhaust, front suspension and 59lb ZX2 weighed 679 with over 6 gallons in the tank. I'm in weight loss mode and trying to beat a new ski doo wet weight to wet weight. Having researched this for years, the Apex die cast chassis aside from the tunnel is very light (18lbs), in fact I am leaning more towards its lighter and stronger then most of the tubular sub frames on the yamacats. The way the apex got so heavy wasn't from the motor (that has shown about a 30-40 lb penalty over a 800 2 smoke), it comes from all the overbuilt steel parts, exhaust, seat, hardware, suspension, and steering system. The balancing of the sled is also interesting. A new pro RMK is about a 50/50 ratio with a 200lb rider. My apex's are 65/35, with 65% of the weight on the rear suspension with most of that on the front arm of the rear suspension. The weight on the RMK skis are about 20lbs lighter then on the Apex skis, that is MUCH closer then I thought. I think the apex weight/balance is misunderstood and I am trying to figure it out. I'm really surprised at the Sidewinder weight.

 

[thor452]

all the same the weight of all the sleds is no more then the weight difference in rider to rider. I love how they like us to think that 50 lbs or so is so much of a difference. that's a full tank of gas vs almost empty. I can see in the steep and deep how it can make a difference to some degree what gets me is around here there is no steep and deep it is almost all trail ridding in fact if you leave the trail they may close the trail down and all you hear from everyone when you tell them you have a Yamaha is that's a heavy machine. most have never rode one and when I challenge them to give it a rip they never come back and say boy I sure am tired from caring all that weight in fact most times you have to chase them down to give it back. where as every time I get stuck ridding someone's doo while they try my machine I feel like I am on a tin can and a twitchy one at that , that is trying to flip over or go straight thru a turn into a tree. when you trail ride weight is to your advantage provided the power is there to haul the load and the Yamaha (You And Me Are Hauling #*$&@) the power is there on demand. They sure do have the public brainwashed about weight. how about durability would you want to drive your truck over the lightest bridge ever built? I know I would not. How about longevity 5000 miles Yamaha just broke in and running stronger that it ever has. two stroke better find a dealer because you need a rebuild or better yet a new machine. I guess it is working for them they sell a whole lot of units because they don't last longer than a season or two and have brainwashed the public into thinking this is great. Bottom line if you are not a mountain rider or maybe boondocker the weight is a good thing and if you think its not go to a head doctor and get un-brainwashed!

 

[kinger]

I agree thor its all in the feel, they 'feel' heavy when trying to ride anything off trail, where as a lighter sled doesn't. They assume its because of the weight, I say its because of the balance. If a Pro RMK is regarded as a 'flickable' its probably because its a 50/50 machine and your body can move the center of transfer all around. Where as the apex is 65/35 and your body weight won't move the sled as easily. Your spot on for the marketing, find me one Pro RMK rider that enjoys trail riding that sled with 50/50, it wont happen. Can you imagine how heavy/twitching/darting the steering would be? On a trail I want MORE weight on the rear and let that suspension take away the rough trail, keep the skis in the air its always smoother. This where the apex shines. I can run down a trail at 110-120 mph and actually feel SAFE, you can't do that on a 50/50 sled and most would never try to. So two different beasts but IMO its not because of weight its because of balance. It would be great to see a 4 scale weight of a Doo to compare. They run down the trail fairly well but none of them will go as fast as my apex (mine is boosted) but they will run near 90mph and that scares the tar out of everyone in my group, it didn't used to, it changed when they all got XPs. Most will complain the sled gets 'loose' at high speed and again they are brainwashed its because of weight, when in reality its the sled putting to much weight on the front skis and its starting to grab any little trench it can find. What I can't explain is why the Doo's are so easy to drive, I could almost fall asleep when driving one, they steer easy, they corner great, never tippy. I am assuming they are close to 50/50 and again just a slight lean keeps the sled planted, but I don't know how they did that. Something in the steering design I would assume. So balance isn't everything but I'm still trying to decipher how the apex is different aside from the motor.

 

[02ViperMody44]

2013 XTX Apex 700 lbs

 

[Bigbluemachine]

With a lot of talk about how heavy the 4 strokes are which sled would be heavier? the new side winder or a new apex.

Apex by far. My 129 is 638. My Apex approx 700 full of fluids. But, if you ride trails mostly they are both great in their own way. Th power steering and engine power on the Apex negates a lot of the heavy feeling and running amazingly smoothly. The sidewinder definitely feels lighter, is easy to ride and the power overcomes all of that nonsense. I find the Sidewinder much more comfortable to ride.

 

[Turtle]

OMG! I can't believe this conversation and how we seem to be justifying, or trying to convince ourselves that our heavy sleds are 'OK', or better because they are heavier. Don't get me wrong - I've had a few 4-stroke Yammies, and I love my Turbo Viper. But I've also rode a few light sleds. My Viper will hang with the best of them, but you can do almost anything sooo much easier with a lighter sled. And what the hell did they do to the Sidewinder to make it weight 40lbs more than a turbo Viper??!!! 40 lbs more, and we wonder why we are last in market share. I think it is truly possible to have your cake AND eat it to. I just wonder how long I can wait for Yamaha to learn to bake.

 

[20/80]

There seems to be some differences in opinions in what the apex and side winder weigh, the thunder cat even weighs more than a side winder for some reason, Lock Burners 2000 real world weights are as close as any as far as weights go, to bad it didn't show the real world apex weight to compare. fuel mileage is not so hot on the side winder either at 10.26 mpg, would be less if you were on the throttle.

 

[Sasquatch]

Poor Apex when even the Yamaha guys believe that its so much heavier then the Sidewinder yet its not. Ski Doo sold the Yamaha as too heavy and the consumer has ate it up! Kinger is more on track with his line of thought, I hate twitchy sleds. Apex is stable at speed!

 

[Troy Julius]

I ride a 2016 rmk assault with a silber turbo and on trail it is not twitchy and is a complete riot, well it's a complete riot to ride anywhere except lakes and ice. Same power as a winder and lite. If I was just a trail or lake rider a winder would probably be in my garage, but I'm not

 

[KnappAttack]

I remember the power-steering equipped Apex at one of the real world shootouts one year weighed 712 or 715 full of fuel. Don't remember if it was studded or not. Keep in mind the Apex also has the smallest fuel tank.

Studs add huge to the weight. I'll look back thru my old issues to see if I can see what model Apex that was and if it was equipped with studs or not.

But for certain a power steering equipped Apex is the heavyweight of all snowmobiles by a bunch.

 

[cannondale27]

Last weekend was riding near PineStump in MI. Cat 800 and My Viper. Sunday the trail Had 5ft berms and 3ft+ moguls in every corner and 1ft whoops everywhere else for 21mi straight Sunday. I know because I wanted it over with! Both sleds can and will go 50+mph under control through all of it but about halfway through we switched sleds and that is when I found that every pound matters. Its the sideways motions that tires you out in that big stuff. I did not want to get off the 800. Phazer vs Viper its even more dramatic. Worst handling front end ever designed on Phazer but it is just so fun and easy in that stuff. It is only a fraction of time every ride and usually on long rides we just cruise through it so wouldnt matter but when nearing end of ride and you know it would be easy to get to truck sometimes its just fun as heck to pin it and see how it goes. Weight does matter but only then. Most of time its a grade or smooth and then I am always wishing for a Apex or Winder!

 

[KnappAttack]

Found it.

2011 Apex XTX without studs, weighs 717 full of fuel on same scales the Winder LTX-LE weighs in at 671 with studs installed. So whats the weight of the studs and how many? Well they don't say, but you could easily subtract 10 lbs and probably more like 15 lbs. So lets just say the Winder is 660 without studs, that's taking off only 11 lbs for studs and backers, really that would be less than 144 studs.

So the winder is at least 55-60 lbs lighter than the Apex real weight according to AmSnow scales.

On the other hand the Sidewinder is 30 lbs heavier than a Viper with a MPI aftermarket turbo installed at 630 lbs. Yikes!

 

[20/80]

Found it.

2011 Apex XTX without studs, weighs 717 full of fuel on same scales the Winder LTX-LE weighs in at 671 with studs installed. So whats the weight of the studs and how many? Well they don't say, but you could easily subtract 10 lbs and probably more like 15 lbs. So lets just say the Winder is 660 without studs, that's taking off only 11 lbs for studs and backers, really that would be less than 144 studs.

So the winder is at least 55-60 lbs lighter than the Apex real weight according to AmSnow scales.

On the other hand the Sidewinder is 30 lbs heavier than a Viper with a MPI aftermarket turbo installed at 630 lbs. Yikes!



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That's what I was thinking the 16 apex xtx with the single shot wet would be around 700 +/- with the 1.25 track, 1.75 would be abit more.

 

[evil eagle]

These are the wet weights with oil and fuel according to my owners manual for my 2016 apex, 670 rx10, 675 rx10l, 688 rx10xt,rx10xt75, 690 rx10xtl.
My sled really is heavy to lift, seeming more so than my old 07 apex. What I remember from about 10 years ago the apex was 640 or 645 and the 1000 cc cat and skidoo with electric start were about 625 or 630.
The cat winder would likely be lighter from the way it is thrown together with tiny 6mm bolts holding skid parts on to self tapping screws instead of properly fastened brackets and bolts.

 

[BlazingCanadian]

Little of topic here guys, I curious where those charts are from!? And do they have all sled models? Or just the more current trendier models?