your last sled?

[Studroes144]

A riding buddy of mine has 5200 miles on his 14 viper ltx. Only thing he has replaced is 1 belt at 4600 miles. That's it. My old mans apex has 4900 miles, we've did exhaust donuts once, all wheels on the skid have been replaced atleast once, some twice, steering is very floppy. My point being, fit and finish of other yamahas when brand new can't be overlooked by the facts of what happens when there are miles put on.

 

[cannondale27]

Cannondale, I actually had mine off a month or so ago and cleaned them. Here was my thing, to most this will be old news, to some it'll be new. 50 miles on my sled, broke the 100mph mark, 80 miles the sled got dynoed. After that the clutch tuning started. Sled ran top notch for the first 4-500 miles then started slowly losing speed more and more until it was deadlocked at 85mph. It got there real quick but then would just die. Clutches were very hot, a lot of belt dust. I knew other people were having the same issues and traced it back to clutching, so I talked with the dealer, who is also a cat dealer and well known racing group so they're familiar with the procross chassis, told him everything I just said here and asked if I should be trying a different belt or changing clutch stuff, he walked out back and got 2 sets of the extra wheel kits for the skid. Told me to throw them on cuz my slides were shot and that they were what was slowing it down. I was kinda dumbfounded and was hoping for a clutch explanation. Anyways I took the sled out in the back field which you can hold it for 1000'. Ran it prolly 8-10 times and best I could get was 85mph. This was a frozen grass field with an inch of snow on it, I knew it should've been faster than that. Anyways, pulled the sled in the garage, put the 2 extra sets of wheels on and still left the old slides on. Went back out, literally 20 mins after I could only get 85mph the first run in the same exact spot was 100mph. Never touched the clutches or belt. Ran half a dozen more times and fastest speed I seen were 102. Not saying this is everyone's case with the speed but the worn out slides and lack of wheels proved to kill my performance. Now, when this all happened it did cause belt slippage because of the rolling resistance, clutches had burnt rubber on them and the belt was worn pretty hard. So after I had all the wheels taken care of and put new slides on I pulled both clutches and took them all apart, cleaned sheaves and put everything back on along with a new belt. This was around the 500 mile mark. 2317 miles on my sled at the end of the season so I had 1800 miles on my 2nd 8jp belt. Where I live at the base of tug hill we leave right from our house to ride the hill. Last ride of the season for me we rode the hill in early April, they had 3 foot of snow yet and ours was basically gone, could've trailered the sled up to ride more but I hate doing that. Anyways there is a long frozen reservoir we race across a lot. My self, dad with his apex, and a buddy on his pro r 800 lined up, viper launched out and I never seen either of them. Good snow conditions, I ran 102 mph with the belt that had 1800 miles on it, no different than the day it was brand new. If the 8dn belt works for people, use it, I'm going to be switching to it this year for the sole reason that I can buy an 8dn belt for $40 cheaper than the 8jp and the aftermarket replacements for the 8dn are more readily available. I'd say if anyone is having speed issues, look the sled over real good before you go and start spending money and changing things on it, could be a chassis issue, could very well be the clutching/belt inconsistency. The one thing we all know is that if your seeing slow speeds, continuing to run it is only going to wear things out faster and make the problem worse in the clutch/belt area so do yourself a big favor and address the issues right when they come up. Your sled will thank you and you'll be much happier with it.

So you are saying that last time you cleaned your clutches there was no rubber on them when you cleaned them last month? Maybe there is just some junk jp belts out there and I got two of them? Only way I could stop the rubber buildup was to put 8dn on there. My stock slides looked new when I put duponts on. No change in rubber buildup and inconsistency.

 

[Studroes144]

I wouldn't go so far as to say there was no build up on the clutches, what was on there was darker discoloration, one swipe with a scotch brite pad with hot soapy water and it cleaned right up, I didn't have to scrub hard on anything to get them to shine back up. The main thing I was pointing out is that my 8jp belt posted the same speeds at 1800 miles as it did when it was brand new.

 

[RTX]

A riding buddy of mine has 5200 miles on his 14 viper ltx. Only thing he has replaced is 1 belt at 4600 miles. That's it. My old mans apex has 4900 miles, we've did exhaust donuts once, all wheels on the skid have been replaced atleast once, some twice, steering is very floppy. My point being, fit and finish of other yamahas when brand new can't be overlooked by the facts of what happens when there are miles put on.

I completely disagree with yourlast statement
Fit and finish and durability are 2 absolutely different issues and should not be confused.

I think you are very very fortunate to have purchased such a reliable and good performing viper. in fact im a bit jealous of your luck, but this was not my experience with the viper.

Looking at the 3 new model sleds i have purchased.
2002 viper
2006 apex
20014 viper
Hands down the viper is the best riding/handling sled, as it should be seeing that its newer with more technology.
Hands down the viper has 5x the issues of my apex right off the dealership floor
My apex has only been to the dealer 2 time in 13000 miles #1 at 7000 miles for a TPS issue
#2 for a cracked oil tank @9000 miles Both issues were covered under extended warranty.
My viper will be headed in for warranty repair of the fuel line , the sway bar, the chaincase, and the hot start once the fix is issued for that. Thats 4 issues in under 500 miles and it should have went back for the antifreeze leaks but if it did, my season would have been over.
So when you average it out. I get 100 miles per problem thats pretty pittiful.
Theres lots of posts on here with build quality issues.
From failed chaincases and improperly valved shocks, to antifreeze leaks, mufflers and headers blowing out.
To hot start and poor performance. Etc etc
The fact you do not have these issues does not negate the fact that others do. In my opinion It just makes you lucky.

I dont recall having this amount of issues with my other sleds.
Maybe over time things broke or wore out, but i know for a fact it was a few seasons before issues started popping up on my other sleds.
Things are gonna happen, i get that, but christ i didn't even run a full tank of fuel through mine before the issues started piling up. For me thats a deal breaker.

 

[radianguy]

Awesome response so far guys, thanks!

 

[yamadoo]

I have had two years on Vectors after 6 on Apex. 99% trail and loved them all. I liked the Apex motor for top end but have come to love the triple as well

 

[cannondale27]

I had more issues with Phazer. Just crank on srx. Not sure why keep buying 1st year sleds

 

[cannondale27]

Studroes you are saying your belt was toast even with clutch kit at 500mi and adding wheels and slides fixed it?

 

[Studroes144]

My belt was toast because slides were shot and it was burning the belt up trying to hold it wide open to get above 85mph. Mine went from 100mph sled to an 85mph sled. Added extra wheels and went back to 100+mph sled and that's with a belt that was whipped. I haven't experience any clutch or belt issues. I had an issue with slides that wore out so bad and caused so much resistance that it really wore out the belt, but the belt wasn't the issue and the extra wheels cured all the issues I had. I learned from a few procross guys over the last year that this chassis doesn't roll freely and it causes issues with belts and clutches

 

[cannondale27]

I agree with that. Definitely potential there. Where were your slides wore?

 

[Studroes144]

They wore on the front bend but that's kinda to be expected, but the worst spot they were wore was about 2/3 of the way back. I know that atleast on the ltx there is about 18" between the last set of wheels and the rear axle, my slides were almost completely wore through in that spot. 6" either way and there was no wear at all. That wear spot caused a wave action in the track which is what caused all the rolling resistance. I partially blame the stiff rear suspension for wearing them out so bad but either way, that skid really should have the extra wheels.

 

[cannondale27]

We had a lot of loose snow here all winter. I never ran on hardpack till April. No slide wear on stock at all but more than one guy who rode my sled felt it was dragging in back. I also lost 5 clips from track. Not sure how. Am pulling skid for shock work. May throw some wheels on it.

 

[Studroes144]

After I did the wheels and dupont slides the different was very noticeable. The majority of my miles from 0-500 miles were on very hard packed snow/ice, so that didn't help, but after the wheels were put on and slides I ran in the same conditions a lot, granted they are DuPont slides that have been on for the last 1800 miles but there is zero wear anywhere. I can't say much for stock clutching because mine only had stock clutching for 80 miles. the clutch setup I have is designed for the 8jp belt..not sure how clutching changes from the 8jp to the 8dn but I'll just say what I've learned this past winter after discussing the issues ALOT with my dealer. Many people have complained about the stock belt/clutching being inconsistent, seems like the same people have had issues with belts wearing out, some to the point of breaking apart. Now I'm not a professional clutch tuner, I don't do it for a living or sell products but I've spoke with enough people that do to know that when the clutching is working properly, belts don't wear out. My clutching from 80-500 miles was working properly, but the chassis drag caused the belt to slowly wear out, sure I could've made changes to clutching or do what stingray has been talking about and add primary shims to increase belt pressure..those things would've worked, but they're not the solution to the problem. I'll use nos-pro for an example. Just seen today his viper ran 110mph in 1/4 mile. That's great and a very impressive number, but in that situation he's working with an extremely free rolling chassis, why has nobody seen these kind of numbers when running on ice with a stock viper where there should be close to the same rolling resistance? I think it's cuz there's very few people that are working hard to free up the rolling of the chassis. Not putting down anyone's setups, that's not what I'm getting at, ultimately even if you have a proper clutch setup, it isn't going to be consistent without a chassis that works properly. You can have a chassis that works properly but without proper clutch setup it's still not going to work. The drivetrain and rolling action on a sled are directly linked, if 1 isn't working it'll throw off the whole thing, once both are setup right, there will be no wear on belt/clutch components. Within the last few weeks I've had 2 different turbo guys PM me in regards to the 8jp belt. Both very knowledgable with clutch setups. One had 2700 miles on their viper, the other had 4000 miles, both on 190hp turbo vipers and both running their original 8jp belt. The 8jp can and will work when setup right. If people choose to use the 8dn I don't blame them a bit, it's a cheaper more popular belt and has been proven to work in the past and now with the viper, just keep in mind that when your machine is working properly as a whole there shouldn't be any of the clutch/belt issues.

 

[cannondale27]

Well in theory think about it. The 8dn works for me and others without the extra wheels on skid. So wouldn't that make it better than 8jp since it also leaves no residue and under good conditions 100 mph is for sure possible? Gotta believe the 8dn and wheels would really be the setup.

 

[Studroes144]

Yes absolutely, there is something about the 8dn that just makes it better. I may or may not have benefited by switching to it last year, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that my viper was posting the same speeds as those who did the 8dn conversion, so I didn't have anything that made me desire to switch to it to try it out. I had a setup that seemed to work very well for what I wanted and it proved to be a very competitive setup when put up against lighter and higher hp sleds, so I stuck with it. Just do need to specify that I am going with the 8dn this year, I don't have anything against it or the setups that people are using with it. I know ulmer has done loads of testing in the belt/clutch area and from what I've seen from his track dyno sheets and info the 8dn is a better setup, just gotta say what I've experienced first hand so that for the up and coming viper owners have some ideas as to what helps the viper in the performance area. I haven't tested this, but I'm with you in your theory cannondale that a set of properly setup clutches along with the 8dn belt, matched up with a chassis that is very free rolling will be a sled that will keep up with and surpass the performance of higher hp and lighter sleds!