SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
I spent the afternoon trying a lot of different things. The good news is the more fuel that I put to this, the better the engine and airbox like it! I love adding fuel to make more power and I hate taking fuel away to make more power.
I have been successful in matching the power of my ECP air kits at peak but at a lower RPM with the mod airbox...9600-10,000 RPM's is the sweet spot for the mod airbox. The good news however is that we absolutely crush the air kit at low RPM's! How does this sound...at 4200, the airbox makes 7.5 more HP than the air kit! At 5000, the airbox makes 5.5 more HP than the air kit and at 5300 RPM's the mod airbox makes 10 more HP than the air kit! At 6800 they are about even, at 7500 the airbox makes 3.6 more. The bad news is that after 10,000 RPM's the airbox drops hard. I have tried a lot of tests like volume versus velocity inside the airbox and the engine responds better to velocity and does not seem to like a lot of area inside the airbox. Like I stated earlier, I was able to match the air kit at peak HP but at a lower RPM than with the air filters.
Here is the cool thing...I am up to a 180 main jet and it is still too lean!!! I am going to order larger main jets, but they are only available (easily) up to size 200. There is a good chance I will be drilling my own main jets. This is a good thing because it means that this airbox mod floes massive amounts of air! Cool! 8)
More reports as they develop.
Freddie Klies
www.easterncycleperf.com
I have been successful in matching the power of my ECP air kits at peak but at a lower RPM with the mod airbox...9600-10,000 RPM's is the sweet spot for the mod airbox. The good news however is that we absolutely crush the air kit at low RPM's! How does this sound...at 4200, the airbox makes 7.5 more HP than the air kit! At 5000, the airbox makes 5.5 more HP than the air kit and at 5300 RPM's the mod airbox makes 10 more HP than the air kit! At 6800 they are about even, at 7500 the airbox makes 3.6 more. The bad news is that after 10,000 RPM's the airbox drops hard. I have tried a lot of tests like volume versus velocity inside the airbox and the engine responds better to velocity and does not seem to like a lot of area inside the airbox. Like I stated earlier, I was able to match the air kit at peak HP but at a lower RPM than with the air filters.
Here is the cool thing...I am up to a 180 main jet and it is still too lean!!! I am going to order larger main jets, but they are only available (easily) up to size 200. There is a good chance I will be drilling my own main jets. This is a good thing because it means that this airbox mod floes massive amounts of air! Cool! 8)
More reports as they develop.
Freddie Klies
www.easterncycleperf.com
Phantom
Expert
Are there any type of filter(s) at all inside the stock air box?
Making the max power at lower RPM it sounds like the right ticket for the Vector/Rage.
Making the max power at lower RPM it sounds like the right ticket for the Vector/Rage.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
SUPERTUNER said:
Does that mean that the mod airbox makes the same HP at 10000 as the filter kit makes at ... (?)10700? Or that at 10000 the airbox makes the same as the filter at 10000? And if its still lean, then would that explain the dramatic dropoff after 10000? ie, with bigger mains, is it likely that the mod airbox would make even greater power at higher RPMs? If so, then this is starting to sound like a very appealing product. What do you figure would happen in terms of fuel consumption with those huge jets?
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
Lazybastard wrote:
Does that mean that the mod airbox makes the same HP at 10000 as the filter kit makes at ... (?)10700? Or that at 10000 the airbox makes the same as the filter at 10000? And if its still lean, then would that explain the dramatic dropoff after 10000? ie, with bigger mains, is it likely that the mod airbox would make even greater power at higher RPMs? If so, then this is starting to sound like a very appealing product. What do you figure would happen in terms of fuel consumption with those huge jets?[/quote]
This means that the airbox made the same power as the filters at 10,000 RPM's. Which for intents and purposes was the same power number as the filters at 10,700 give or take only a 1 or 2 HP difference.
I suspect that the drop off is due to a lean condition but further testing will be required to know for sure. It definately is running lean though. As to the query about fuel mileage....the mileage went up and stayed the same on most sleds with the addition of the air kit. The reason being is due to the fact that you have to demand less from the throttle lever to maintain the same MPH on a trail or lake or whatever. The same phenomenon is going to occur here I suspect.
Does that mean that the mod airbox makes the same HP at 10000 as the filter kit makes at ... (?)10700? Or that at 10000 the airbox makes the same as the filter at 10000? And if its still lean, then would that explain the dramatic dropoff after 10000? ie, with bigger mains, is it likely that the mod airbox would make even greater power at higher RPMs? If so, then this is starting to sound like a very appealing product. What do you figure would happen in terms of fuel consumption with those huge jets?[/quote]
This means that the airbox made the same power as the filters at 10,000 RPM's. Which for intents and purposes was the same power number as the filters at 10,700 give or take only a 1 or 2 HP difference.
I suspect that the drop off is due to a lean condition but further testing will be required to know for sure. It definately is running lean though. As to the query about fuel mileage....the mileage went up and stayed the same on most sleds with the addition of the air kit. The reason being is due to the fact that you have to demand less from the throttle lever to maintain the same MPH on a trail or lake or whatever. The same phenomenon is going to occur here I suspect.
air box
So the way I understand it is that we have wasted our money on the air kit and should have waited for the air box mod?
So the way I understand it is that we have wasted our money on the air kit and should have waited for the air box mod?
Freddie, can't wait for you to finish testing so I can get one of these on my new sled. I was going to take your kit off my 03 but now I'll sell it with it on. Look forward to further updates. 
Will you need the evac kit with the air box mod ? thanks...
Bob Miller
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2003
- Messages
- 1,322
- Location
- New Milford CT
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Present Sled: 2011 Yamaha Apex 128
Here is some feedback from a modified air box:
I added TPI valves (thunder products, the same makers as Heavy Hitters). I added 4 to the air box and jetted up to 160 and turned the pilot screws out 3 turns from seat. The result is an RX-1 that creams a stock unit and hasn't lost any top end.
I added TPI valves (thunder products, the same makers as Heavy Hitters). I added 4 to the air box and jetted up to 160 and turned the pilot screws out 3 turns from seat. The result is an RX-1 that creams a stock unit and hasn't lost any top end.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
- Messages
- 4,794
- Age
- 61
- Location
- Grand Ledge Michigan USA!
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 22 Mach Z
23 Sidewinder SRX
Hmmmmm, but do you get that cool growl like with the filters
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Maybe try putting a baseball card in the spokes??
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
WHen do you use the power and torque made at 4400rpms?
With my current setup my sled leaves the line at almost 10,800 and holds it threwout till top speed!
I just dont see why low rpm torque and HP will matter as long as the sled is clutched properlly!
With my current setup my sled leaves the line at almost 10,800 and holds it threwout till top speed!
I just dont see why low rpm torque and HP will matter as long as the sled is clutched properlly!
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
byoffcr...you didn't waste your money. Didn't the air kit do everything I stated? Right now, the air kit would still be faster. This is called "evolution". I do my best thinking while sitting on the toilet...does this mean I should never take a dump again?
Need snow...evac kit is not needed....yet. The stock hose remains intact inside the modded airbox.
Bob Miller...I mean no disrespect but this airbox mod will absolutely crush the TPI valve modded airboxes and this design isn't even close to correct yet. I am talkin about A LOT MORE AIR VOLUME!!!
Mighty Warrior...I haven't had a mod airbox out in the field yet so I really don't know. I beleieve that the mod airbox will be a little quieter though. I can't please everyone. Some like the sound the air filters make, some don't.
Welterracer...this may be a bit difficult to understand but think about this question...Are you making any torque before the sled begins moving? The answer is "NO". Therefore although your tach climbs right up to its intended operating range, your torque does not climb in as fast as the tach needle moves! If the torque did, you would be thrown off the back of the sled everytime you tried to take off by engaging the clutch. Therefore, torque starts at "zero". Torque also climbs in a LOT slower than RPM's do. This means that you do indeed start at zero and experience the torque from zero and through every single RPM range that your engine goes through. If your torque climbed in as fast as the tach needle moves, it would be like getting rear ended by a tractor trailer. You simply could not hold on.
Also, the reason why your tach wings up so fast is due to the CVT clutches not being able to grab ahold of the belt as much as you and I like to think they do. Make no mistake about it...you do experience torque from a zero scale all the way up to peak, and much slower than you think. Plus I doubt you really engage your drive clutch at 10,800 RPM's.
Need snow...evac kit is not needed....yet. The stock hose remains intact inside the modded airbox.
Bob Miller...I mean no disrespect but this airbox mod will absolutely crush the TPI valve modded airboxes and this design isn't even close to correct yet. I am talkin about A LOT MORE AIR VOLUME!!!
Mighty Warrior...I haven't had a mod airbox out in the field yet so I really don't know. I beleieve that the mod airbox will be a little quieter though. I can't please everyone. Some like the sound the air filters make, some don't.
Welterracer...this may be a bit difficult to understand but think about this question...Are you making any torque before the sled begins moving? The answer is "NO". Therefore although your tach climbs right up to its intended operating range, your torque does not climb in as fast as the tach needle moves! If the torque did, you would be thrown off the back of the sled everytime you tried to take off by engaging the clutch. Therefore, torque starts at "zero". Torque also climbs in a LOT slower than RPM's do. This means that you do indeed start at zero and experience the torque from zero and through every single RPM range that your engine goes through. If your torque climbed in as fast as the tach needle moves, it would be like getting rear ended by a tractor trailer. You simply could not hold on.
Also, the reason why your tach wings up so fast is due to the CVT clutches not being able to grab ahold of the belt as much as you and I like to think they do. Make no mistake about it...you do experience torque from a zero scale all the way up to peak, and much slower than you think. Plus I doubt you really engage your drive clutch at 10,800 RPM's.
jimmie d
TY 4 Stroke Master
I've had D&D power breathers on four different sleds and yes you will get more noise than stock.
Freddie I think what byoffcr was referring to is that he bought the filters for his new 05 and has never even used them.
Matt you were right.
Jim
Freddie I think what byoffcr was referring to is that he bought the filters for his new 05 and has never even used them.
Matt you were right.
Jim
Freddie , Green Machine is right. I bought 2 sets for my 2 new 05s and paid my dealer $200.00 to put them on and I dont remember u saying you were having some better comming out before I even got to use these.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
When you think along those lines, some people still buy 2-smokes even though they KNOW that 4-strokes are available. Figure that one out.
