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Front VS Rear mount Turbo Sled showdown at ShootOut Dec 7th

KnappAttack said:
All set ups being equal, i.e. boost for boost, a CPR front mount will spank any rear mount turbo or supercharger. That is speaking from experience. Notice I said all things being equal. No NOS or ignition to spool turbo tricks. Front mounts are FAR more fun and responsive than a rear mount for trail use. Even if the rear mount would have won the shootout I would say the same thing.
Click to expand...

OK run nitrous and high boost on both sleds equally. Rear mount wins, better cooling lower intake temps etc.... :flag:
 

Well here is what you guys have me thinking.
Maybe I need to ride a Front Mount, back to back, with a Rear Mount on the trails.

Now I just have to seek out a Front Mount locally, that actually runs... The few I know of are garage ornaments because they can't keep together for some reason. But probably because they mostly drag race machines, though...

Question... How much lag does a current Rear Mount apex have?
Like anything, I am sure that each persons perception of "LAG" is different.

Is it a lag from Idle to WOT? (doubt it is significant if a Rear Mount Attack ran the fastest times/speed in the Trail Mod class at the Woodgate ShootOut )
Or is it the response from off-throttle to back on it again? Could that be clutching, maybe?

Ughh.

:rocks:
 
Freak, that works for you and that is great. But for the average guy who has no nitrous to spool the turbo, rear mount sucks for lag in comparison to front. There are not too many guys with NOS and a turbo. SMOKE you, I have no idea how it did, vicegrip said he was going down to see the D+D boys and have a little fun, I had it set up as a 270HP pump gas trail sled when I sold it, and I believe it's still in trail trim. JD is an old D+D two-stroke customer and friend. Maybe he'll get on and chime in. I'll tell you that it was the best machine I ever owned. It made more power to the track than any race sled I ever owned. It is one sweet high powered machine! JD, you out there?


Edit: From what I saw online, its a CPR front mount from Dynoport that ran quicker and faster times.
 
mbarryracing said:
Well here is what you guys have me thinking.
Maybe I need to ride a Front Mount, back to back, with a Rear Mount on the trails.

Now I just have to seek out a Front Mount locally, that actually runs... The few I know of are garage ornaments because they can't keep together for some reason. But probably because they mostly drag race machines, though...

Question... How much lag does a current Rear Mount apex have?
Like anything, I am sure that each persons perception of "LAG" is different.

Is it a lag from Idle to WOT? (doubt it is significant if a Rear Mount Attack ran the fastest times/speed in the Trail Mod class at the Woodgate ShootOut )
Or is it the response from off-throttle to back on it again? Could that be clutching, maybe?

Ughh.

:rocks:
Click to expand...
I was at big moose yamaha yesterday up in Eagle bay and he has a Brand new rear mount turbo on a apex, maybe he would let ya try it out if you ask nice...lol.......I'll stick to my CPR front mount anyday of the week!!!
 
KnappAttack said:
Edit: From what I saw online, its a CPR front mount from Dynoport that ran quicker and faster times.
Click to expand...

Guys, I am talking for trail use.
Yes , Rich's Dyno Port Simons CPR was the fastest of the day, but it is a Lake Racer... Which I don't care about because I don't want to run Race Fuel.

I trail ride my sled hundreds of miles, so I am only interested in the real Trail Mod sleds, pump gas all day long (not the sleeper race gas machines in the Trail Mod class either)
 
srxguy said:
I was at big moose yamaha yesterday up in Eagle bay and he has a Brand new rear mount turbo on a apex, maybe he would let ya try it out if you ask nice...lol.......I'll stick to my CPR front mount anyday of the week!!!
Click to expand...


I have a few here, I can't pair up with a front Mount is the issue...
I think maybe we need to setup a "BACK YARD" Trail challenge somewhere central. Eagle Bay?
Something unofficial, unbiased, so we could compare and discuss our impressions?

No Lake Racers, just Turbo sleds that you could put a few hundred miles on if you wanted to.

Anyone else think this might be a good time?
 
mbarryracing said:
Well here is what you guys have me thinking.
Maybe I need to ride a Front Mount, back to back, with a Rear Mount on the trails.

Now I just have to seek out a Front Mount locally, that actually runs... The few I know of are garage ornaments because they can't keep together for some reason. But probably because they mostly drag race machines, though...

Question... How much lag does a current Rear Mount apex have?
Like anything, I am sure that each persons perception of "LAG" is different.

Is it a lag from Idle to WOT? (doubt it is significant if a Rear Mount Attack ran the fastest times/speed in the Trail Mod class at the Woodgate ShootOut )
Or is it the response from off-throttle to back on it again? Could that be clutching, maybe?

Ughh.

:rocks:
Click to expand...

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... hlight=lag

There are a few more players in the turbo space than when this thread originated, but the principles haven't changed...
 
mbarryracing said:
srxguy said:
I was at big moose yamaha yesterday up in Eagle bay and he has a Brand new rear mount turbo on a apex, maybe he would let ya try it out if you ask nice...lol.......I'll stick to my CPR front mount anyday of the week!!!
Click to expand...


I have a few here, I can't pair up with a front Mount is the issue...
I think maybe we need to setup a "BACK YARD" Trail challenge somewhere central. Eagle Bay?
Something unofficial, unbiased, so we could compare and discuss our impressions?

No Lake Racers, just Turbo sleds that you could put a few hundred miles on if you wanted to....

Anyone else think this might be a good time?
Click to expand...
Over 3000 miles on my cpr turbo, only problem was a cracked header!
 
ya had a great day with my friends from dd on thursday we figured what a turbo can run with and what it can't . turbo did very well.from a dead stop a 300hp f1200 with nitrous can't catch him but from a 30-40mph roll on thats a different story and the dd firecat turbo is just silly . full power performance was there also very nice people
 
turbo motors

mbarryracing,if theese packages are built correctley you can put 100's of 1/4 mile passes on them ours has 80 to 100 on the tar this year no issues except broken drive shaft in martin ,mi drive shaft breaking 60:s we out sorce our motors to a great motor builder fast...
 
Re: turbo motors

FASTSLED said:
mbarryracing,if theese packages are built correctley you can put 100's of 1/4 mile passes on them ours has 80 to 100 on the tar this year no issues except broken drive shaft in martin ,mi drive shaft breaking 60:s we out sorce our motors to a great motor builder fast...
Click to expand...

Oh I don't even question reliability of any Turbo Snowmobile, Front or Rear mount. My earlier comment about the local Front Mount sleds always being apart, disregard that because those are Race Only and are apart for whatever reason (maybe improvements). Wasn't trying to imply that Front Mounts aren't reliable as trail mods. Sorry if I gave that impression. That wasn't my intent... I just can't test ride those particular sleds for that reason.

My point IS that as a prospective Turbo system purchaser for trail use only, I don't want to hear comments about any Sled that requires RACE FUEL (like the Lake Racers at the shootout).
One sled faster than another, with Boost cranked up so high it needs 114 Octane.
I can't get RACE FUEL on the trails around where I ride.
Although, I love the smell :drink:
 
Re: turbo motors

mbarryracing said:
FASTSLED said:
mbarryracing,if theese packages are built correctley you can put 100's of 1/4 mile passes on them ours has 80 to 100 on the tar this year no issues except broken drive shaft in martin ,mi drive shaft breaking 60:s we out sorce our motors to a great motor builder fast...
Click to expand...

Oh I don't even question reliability of any Turbo Snowmobile, Front or Rear mount. My earlier comment about the local Front Mount sleds always being apart, disregard that because those are Race Only and are apart for whatever reason (maybe improvements). Wasn't trying to imply that Front Mounts aren't reliable as trail mods. Sorry if I gave that impression. That wasn't my intent... I just can't test ride those particular sleds for that reason.

My point IS that as a prospective Turbo system purchaser for trail use only, I don't want to hear comments about any Sled that requires RACE FUEL (like the Lake Racers at the shootout).
One sled faster than another, with Boost cranked up so high it needs 114 Octane.
I can't get RACE FUEL on the trails around where I ride.
Although, I love the smell :drink:
Click to expand...

If you live somewhere between New York and Montana, this would be my suggestion:

Call 414.698.6611
Ask for Jeff
Order and Apex/Attack kit
Order the extra head gaskets
Give him your credit card #
Install all of the above
Fill your tank with pump premium
go shake the new install dowm
Pull the trigger on 270 pump HP and wonder why you spent so long debating it.

Seriously - there are lots of good turbo offerings out there right now. I have customers running pretty much all of them. I'm just finishing an install on a customer's '07 Attack right now with a CPR kit, and I am extremely impressed. The fit, finish, attention to detail is exceptional. You have guys like Mike attesting to the performance (I'll personally listen to what someone with 20+ world records has to say), as well as access to Jeff himself, who has accomplished more with boosted 4 strokes that anyone else I can think of.

Don't get me wrong, MCX and Dave at Powderlites both make very good products. I think Dave would be the first to admit that his kit is designed with the mountain rider in mind. MCX makes a great kit as well, but if I personally had the choice between spending +5k on a front or a rearmount, I'd take the front mount in a heartbeat.

I have some pics/comments from my most recent install that I'll post in a new thread. I think they will help to substantiate what I'm saying here.
 
lakercr said:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... hlight=lag

There are a few more players in the turbo space than when this thread originated, but the principles haven't changed...
Click to expand...

lakercr, that was a great post. Thanks for bring in that link.

Yes, I listen to experience... Thanks for all your input and guidance.

I am going to try to ride both, compare apples to apples.

Looking forward to your new thread. :4STroke:
 
Eagle Bay - Big Moose lake, 4th lake, or?, Maybe another month till the ice is ready, we could round up my 05 RX1 MPI SC, SPEED has an FI MPI SC, and AJ just completed a CPR on his FI sled, (all trail sleds) that would be a good start. I can make it, it wouldn't take much arm twisting for the other two. My money is on AJ :flag:
 
My money is on AJ
Click to expand...
Mine would be too, he has a MUCH larger compressor, the Stage-I SC is equivelent in size to the (old) MCX Schwitzer turbo or a GT22 turbo and comparing it to the (new) MCX Mits or GT25s or GT28s is just silly.

A properly setup Stage-II would put you in the game.

At 2.0 pressure ratio:

MPI Stage-I (310 CFM @ 65%)
GT25 (405 CFM @ 60%)
Mits TDH04-16T (435 CFM @ 65%)
MPI Stage-II (450 CFM @ 65%)
GT28RS (495 CFM @ 60%)
 
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