marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Just wanted to know if you want the plate or not. I was not sure witch sled it was.
Chalk up another busted Phazer V2.0
- Thread starter Mars
- Start date
boondoggle
Extreme
Mars, I am very familiar with the situation you have encountered. I've broken 4 of these lower bolts in about 1300 miles. I just made a post about it on the mtx site. You don't have to hit anything hard. A glancing side impact will pop that bolt like a pretzel stick. I did a lot of side hilling and carving with my mtx and I never once smashed the a arm itself into anything. All the breaks came from moderate to mild side or underneath (ski) impacts.
The good new is you can get replacement hardware at home depot and then take a torch to the arm (it is steel) get it glowing white and bend it back. Hold the arm in a table vise and use a pry bar through the hollow tube part next to the bent spot. Get some blue rustoleum spray-paint and you are back in business.
The bad news is that the egging will lead to an easier shear next time. I never had any problem with a realigned a arm giving out but I always worried about how easy the next bolt would shear with all that room to move in the egg.
That is why the repair bill was correctly written at over 2k. The subframe really has to be replaced once the bolt holes get egged. A better solution is to use hardened steel washers welded to the bolt holes to strengthen them. Then use hardened steel bolts. But most dealers will not get involved with that.
By the way, after my last a arm went I decided to cash out with the phazer. I had it totalled. So I have some phazer items to sell which include right and left lower a arms (blue), an mtx cover, new belt, tool kit and owners manual. Anyone let me know if you are interested.
The good new is you can get replacement hardware at home depot and then take a torch to the arm (it is steel) get it glowing white and bend it back. Hold the arm in a table vise and use a pry bar through the hollow tube part next to the bent spot. Get some blue rustoleum spray-paint and you are back in business.
The bad news is that the egging will lead to an easier shear next time. I never had any problem with a realigned a arm giving out but I always worried about how easy the next bolt would shear with all that room to move in the egg.
That is why the repair bill was correctly written at over 2k. The subframe really has to be replaced once the bolt holes get egged. A better solution is to use hardened steel washers welded to the bolt holes to strengthen them. Then use hardened steel bolts. But most dealers will not get involved with that.
By the way, after my last a arm went I decided to cash out with the phazer. I had it totalled. So I have some phazer items to sell which include right and left lower a arms (blue), an mtx cover, new belt, tool kit and owners manual. Anyone let me know if you are interested.
Grimm
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I'm still curious about how the Dealer deemed that the problem was the result of an impact? What was the "telltale" fine?
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
boondoggle said:
I know what you mean. Before the new chassis I just bent the a-arms back. The lower right a-arm I hit a road because I gut pulled down a drift. I just took it off and took it to a press and made a bent points with different supports. The funny thing the bolts never broke there. After that I bent the lower left because all I did was use a two strap to add pulling the sled out of stuck. I broke a bolt there, I had to touch the frame and bed stuff back, then weld washers. I touched the a-ram but it would not go back on with the a frame shims, so I order a new on. If you look at my picks from the Red Lake 100 crash you will see how bad you can destroy a sub-frame and a tunnel, clutches, from a fire hydrant.
Weapon X
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Ya but mars you broke this stuff in competition not everyday riding like the rest of us ,by the way your last post is harsh to read.
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Weapon X said:
Correction it was not during comp only the totaling of the sled was. Everything else I has broke was during normal riding.
dwh039
Extreme
what grade of bolt have you been using? If you step up a grade of bolt, it will be able to handle the shearing forces better.
just look at the head of the bolt. more than likely your using an 8.8 bolt, if memory serves me right the next bolt grade should be a10.9. Which under theory should be roughly 25-30% stronger than the 8.8 .
If you are using sae instead of metric there are three main grades that you probably see. Grade 2 which is a fairy cheap bolt has no markings on top (usually find these at the local hardware store). Next is a grade 5 which has three dash marks on top in the shape of a Y, this is probably the most used grade (can purchase at local auto parts store). Finally grade 8 bolts have 6 dash marks in the shape of a star burst. Grade 8 are usually 2-3 times the cost of a 5 and are usually found at bolt supply stores or heavy equipment parts stores.
just look at the head of the bolt. more than likely your using an 8.8 bolt, if memory serves me right the next bolt grade should be a10.9. Which under theory should be roughly 25-30% stronger than the 8.8 .
If you are using sae instead of metric there are three main grades that you probably see. Grade 2 which is a fairy cheap bolt has no markings on top (usually find these at the local hardware store). Next is a grade 5 which has three dash marks on top in the shape of a Y, this is probably the most used grade (can purchase at local auto parts store). Finally grade 8 bolts have 6 dash marks in the shape of a star burst. Grade 8 are usually 2-3 times the cost of a 5 and are usually found at bolt supply stores or heavy equipment parts stores.
boondoggle
Extreme
dwh039 said:
Yes you have to be aware of the different grading between metric and english. The hardened steel will be zinc plated. But I think if you use a harder bolt without reinforcing the bolt holes you will really mash up that subframe when there is an impact.
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boondoggle said:
X2 I think it is good to have the bolt break before the subfame.
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I have used just the stock bolts. Each time has been something different with the bolts.
First a-arm (hit a pole)-just bent the arm but did nothing to the bolts or the frame
Totaling- Front bolt ripped from the mount (bolt stayed in perfect condition) but the back bolt just bent inside the mount (probably ovaled the mount to. Then again it did hit a hydrant.
3rd time I casually the sled out of the ditch. I noticed the alignment was off so I fixed that (no apparent damage). Later the carbide got some dirt and the arm bent back. A-arm bent and the rear bolt was snapped and it ovaled out the mount.
This was normal riding condition. The totaling of the sled was not, that was in racing.
First a-arm (hit a pole)-just bent the arm but did nothing to the bolts or the frame
Totaling- Front bolt ripped from the mount (bolt stayed in perfect condition) but the back bolt just bent inside the mount (probably ovaled the mount to. Then again it did hit a hydrant.
3rd time I casually the sled out of the ditch. I noticed the alignment was off so I fixed that (no apparent damage). Later the carbide got some dirt and the arm bent back. A-arm bent and the rear bolt was snapped and it ovaled out the mount.
This was normal riding condition. The totaling of the sled was not, that was in racing.
boondoggle
Extreme
marpolsdofer said:
Yup. Makes sense. The sled does ok with an impact to the arm itself. The arm bends and is still ridable. I saw the hydrant vid. Hard to tell what hit there, maybe the spindle caught on the hydrant. But as you say hitting a hydrant can be expected to wreck a lot of things. But the weak spot is the side impact like what you would encounter in a ditch or hitting dirt in a turn. Just pops that bolt right in two. Usually at the back and you can find the nutted end rattling around in belly pan later. Then the sled is pretty much unrideable although last time I limped 30 miles with it like that and it took half a day and I felt like I had just wrestled an unpredictable silverback gorilla every inch of that 30 miles. That was when I decided to total it.
