morrisond
Expert
Please keep in mind this pertains to riding on Groomed trails only. Off trail get an stock XTX and be happy (but if your off trail that much you really should get an Nytro XTX as it's probably a better boondocker).
With EPS able to overcome the extra effort of turning a straight rail 144 I see no benefit and several downside to tipped up rails on the XTX for the trail rider.
Yamaha says that the XTX turns like a 121 on trail, bridges bumps like a 136 and floats like a 144. I would add but stops like a 121 and accelerates somewhere in between 121-136.
The downside of tipped up rails is that you don't get as good traction as straight rails, and your braking isn't as good, and you don't bridge the bumps as well. I would actually prefer a 136 Straight over tipped 144.
I want 144 inches of acceleration, braking and bridging.
In anticipation of an 144 Apex this year I took a 4 stroke Venture I have put a seat lift and wide front end on it as an experiment and have been riding that to see how I like 144 straight rails. Even without EPS the thing turns great, it doesn't need tipped up rails. I can see the Nytro needed them as they are so hard to turn, but not Deltabox Sleds.
Without modding, I'm guessing the 128 is the better choice as it should stop a little better, accelerate about the same and even though not as long the mono should be a better ride so no worse in the rough stuff. It works pretty well, but with EPS I think you can go longer.
So the choice is put straight rails on the 144 - Possible Nextech will build Carbon rails that will work - but pricey at $1,400, I haven't talked to MPI yet but they may be able to do something in Billet, not sure about strength though.
Or Stretch the Mono - The upside is you can start with the SE(and get it in black) so you have Floats all around. The simple change is to use Yammie 136 rails to get 136, extensions to 144, or Nextech will build Custom 144" rails but again $1,400.
Thoughts? Does anybody have any idea how the Mono works stretched out to 144?
With EPS able to overcome the extra effort of turning a straight rail 144 I see no benefit and several downside to tipped up rails on the XTX for the trail rider.
Yamaha says that the XTX turns like a 121 on trail, bridges bumps like a 136 and floats like a 144. I would add but stops like a 121 and accelerates somewhere in between 121-136.
The downside of tipped up rails is that you don't get as good traction as straight rails, and your braking isn't as good, and you don't bridge the bumps as well. I would actually prefer a 136 Straight over tipped 144.
I want 144 inches of acceleration, braking and bridging.
In anticipation of an 144 Apex this year I took a 4 stroke Venture I have put a seat lift and wide front end on it as an experiment and have been riding that to see how I like 144 straight rails. Even without EPS the thing turns great, it doesn't need tipped up rails. I can see the Nytro needed them as they are so hard to turn, but not Deltabox Sleds.
Without modding, I'm guessing the 128 is the better choice as it should stop a little better, accelerate about the same and even though not as long the mono should be a better ride so no worse in the rough stuff. It works pretty well, but with EPS I think you can go longer.
So the choice is put straight rails on the 144 - Possible Nextech will build Carbon rails that will work - but pricey at $1,400, I haven't talked to MPI yet but they may be able to do something in Billet, not sure about strength though.
Or Stretch the Mono - The upside is you can start with the SE(and get it in black) so you have Floats all around. The simple change is to use Yammie 136 rails to get 136, extensions to 144, or Nextech will build Custom 144" rails but again $1,400.
Thoughts? Does anybody have any idea how the Mono works stretched out to 144?
fxr
Extreme
apex
talked my dealer today because i,m real intrigued about the (se). out of the three he liked the (se) the best. i know you like the black i would get the se if i were you and try it. if you don,t like it you can always extend it and then you get the shocks with the black colour.
talked my dealer today because i,m real intrigued about the (se). out of the three he liked the (se) the best. i know you like the black i would get the se if i were you and try it. if you don,t like it you can always extend it and then you get the shocks with the black colour.
VX1R
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morrisond said:
I've got about 500 miles of experience on a 146" Mono skid so far this year, although the skid is installed on my '02 SRX and not an Apex. Click on the SRX link below for some more info if you're interested.
The skid is from a Attak that also has a Ohlins EC shock, and I had some custom rails made for it. I'm using a 146" single ply Camoplast Cobra track. This track uses a 2.86" pitch, so I had to change drivers.
From my point of view, this set up (146" to 136") is the single largest improvement in the Mono skid that I've ever experienced. This sled had the 136" skid the last two years for comparison. Compared to the 136" Mono in my wife's Attak based sled that also has the Ohlins EC and a Cobra track, this set up does everything better.
The 146" rails that I had made have a slight 5 degree tip up that's a lot shallower than the tip up on the XTX 144" skid. I totally agree with you that these sleds seem to handle just fine with the added length with a straigher rail. I have not noticed any more effort in turning the sled with the added length this year.
The most noticeable improvement is the bump bridging. I can ride faster and in more control than I ever thought possible with a Mono skid. The acceleration and braking are greatly improved too. The comfort level has also improved.
I am completely sold on the benefits of the longer (144"-146") Mono skid set up for all around trail riding and the occasional off trail treks. I'm considering installing this same 146" set up in my red VX1R 4-stroke sled next year. If the new Fox Mega Float will work in the current Mono skids I might even give that I try.
If you've got any other questions regarding a longer Mono skid, or having any rails made for that purpose let me know.
morrisond
Expert
Fantastic,
Thank you very much. What would you do, straight rail the XTX or 144 the Mono?
Not really into jumping, but very agressive trail rider.
Thank you very much. What would you do, straight rail the XTX or 144 the Mono?
Not really into jumping, but very agressive trail rider.
VX1R
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2004
- Messages
- 2,286
- Reaction score
- 4,723
- Points
- 1,603
- Location
- Inver Grove Heights, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Ordered: 2025 SW LTX-LE Final Edition
Current Riders:
2018 SW LTX-LE
2002 SRX Custom
Rough Trail: 2023 Lynx Xterrian 900TurboR
Vintage Riders:
1980 Enticer 300 Twin
1986 Inviter
1998 Phazer Mt. Lite
1996 Phazer Mt. Lite Mod
I'll let you know in a few weeks. I just got signed up today to ride the new sleds at the end of the month at the nearby Yamaha demo rides. I'd like to give the new Apex XTX a try before I can answer your question.
I buddy of mine had a chance to ride the Apex XTX recently and told me that he's probably going to get signed up for one next year.
From my experience on the 146" mono equiped SRX, that is my favorite riding skid so far. I'm sure that the boys at "Big Blue" have their reasons for not offering the monoshock skid in anything longer than a 136", but most of the comments that I've seen here on TY from guys that have gone longer have been positive.
The only exception is that a longer mono skid is not the greatest deep snow choice due to the angle of attak. If you use it as a primary trail riding/cross county set up it's hard to beat from my experience.
I buddy of mine had a chance to ride the Apex XTX recently and told me that he's probably going to get signed up for one next year.
From my experience on the 146" mono equiped SRX, that is my favorite riding skid so far. I'm sure that the boys at "Big Blue" have their reasons for not offering the monoshock skid in anything longer than a 136", but most of the comments that I've seen here on TY from guys that have gone longer have been positive.
The only exception is that a longer mono skid is not the greatest deep snow choice due to the angle of attak. If you use it as a primary trail riding/cross county set up it's hard to beat from my experience.
Attachments
70superbee
Expert
IMO the 144" apex should really good on the trails. I used to have 03 800 sks 144 and then got a 2005.5 900 switchback 144".You can make those sleds handle extremely well for trail riding. They bridged the bumps way better than my attak does.Awesome for jumping and doing wheelies on the trails. Would love to have one xtx but the cost is way to much for me.
Rich
Rich
I missed out on the chance to ride a 2011 Apex XTX today. We were on groomed trails all day. Those that did get to ride it liked it the best. We were in somewhat marginal conditions with a mix of straight and tight twisty stuff. I did ride a 2010 Nytro XTX and really didn't care for the thing after being on the Apex's. Buddy of mine who rode both the Nytro XTX and Apex XTX said they were nothing alike and the Apex was much better.
morrisond
Expert
Did the people that ride the XTX ride the 128 as well to compare?
Oh yeah. There was probably 8 2011 128's to ride, 1 Apex XTX and 1 Apex SE. The 2010 sleds were a Nytro XTX, Nytro SE, Apex LTX, Vector, and a Phazer. Each person got to ride each except for I was next in line to ride the XTX and we pulled back into the resort 
morrisond
Expert
Did anyone have any comments on the SE?
I loved the SE. We probably didn't hit conditions to really see what all it's capable of, but for choppy stuff and whooped out corners it was really nice. Very little feedback in your butt at all in the chop.
I overheard alot of people saying how they really liked it also.
I overheard alot of people saying how they really liked it also.
I never rode my Apex in a shorter configuration - my 144 ZX2 went in with 0 miles on it and I am very happy with how well the sled handles the trails. I am running a wide front end kit as well, my last sled was a 136 Rev and I have no complaints with the 144 in the Apex!!
RW06GT
Extreme
What about relocating the 128 back in the tunnel? Plenty of guys have relocated the 136 back to 144 in the Attak. As a bonus it would improve the attack angle of the track as well, correct?
morrisond
Expert
I rode an Nytro XTX for the first time today. Very impressive skid. I really like how it popped the sled up when you hit a small rise.
Still not liking the Red or Blue on the XTX though, or the shocks. By the time you change the shocks and colour, you are talking big money.
Cheapest/Simplest option may be to just get an SE and put 136" rails from the LTX on. It looks like there is enough room under the tunnel without hitting the rear exchanger.
Still not liking the Red or Blue on the XTX though, or the shocks. By the time you change the shocks and colour, you are talking big money.
Cheapest/Simplest option may be to just get an SE and put 136" rails from the LTX on. It looks like there is enough room under the tunnel without hitting the rear exchanger.
