DYNAREX
Expert
if you are using the ecp filters 165 jets and silver springs with some sort of crankcase evac system the max hp is around 138-140 or so at 10000
all the way to 10800-so for max acceleration and top mph the clutch should go to 10700 as soon as you wack the loud flipper from a standing start and stay there all the way-if it dosent you are losing mph and acceleration-
example-assuming a shorty with stk gearing at a 1/1 shift ratio 10200 rpm gives us-about 120 mph
jump to 10700 and mph goes to 126-this is on paper of course but you can see the diff a few hundred rpms make
just thought you guys should know
all the way to 10800-so for max acceleration and top mph the clutch should go to 10700 as soon as you wack the loud flipper from a standing start and stay there all the way-if it dosent you are losing mph and acceleration-
example-assuming a shorty with stk gearing at a 1/1 shift ratio 10200 rpm gives us-about 120 mph
jump to 10700 and mph goes to 126-this is on paper of course but you can see the diff a few hundred rpms make
just thought you guys should know
Dynarex, thanks for putting this evac system together. I've picked up the items needed to install, just got to find the time. Right now with the ECP kit I'm seeing 10,600 and 125 on the dream meter the other weekend. Sounds like I'm almost there :lol: Hope the snow comes back for just a little while longer :!:
Blue shadow
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Does this aply on loose snow also.If I do go at 10700 out of the hole then I am not using my tork but horse power instead.Would this cause me to spend more off the line? :?
DYNAREX
Expert
the acceleration of any sled-or other vehicle is affected by the traction
in order for you to have acceleration or even top speed you need traction-but you need to have the power 1st-
torque dosent accelerate you power does-any way you slice it if you are not at you power peak under full throttle you are not accelerating as fast as you are able to(traction permitting)
think of a top fuel dragster-it leaves the line at somewhere around 7500 rpm and basically holds it there the whole run-the key is the traction and the clutch
in order for you to have acceleration or even top speed you need traction-but you need to have the power 1st-
torque dosent accelerate you power does-any way you slice it if you are not at you power peak under full throttle you are not accelerating as fast as you are able to(traction permitting)
think of a top fuel dragster-it leaves the line at somewhere around 7500 rpm and basically holds it there the whole run-the key is the traction and the clutch
RX1Jim
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Dynarex,
I'd like to visit you to take a look at the EVAC setup and talk about clutching for the ECP setup? By your directions, I'm only 20 min. away. What do you think?
I'd like to visit you to take a look at the EVAC setup and talk about clutching for the ECP setup? By your directions, I'm only 20 min. away. What do you think?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Dynarex; torque *does* accelerate you, but its DRIVESHAFT torque rather than crankshaft torque, which is maximized with perfect clutching and peak power.
ALL: Depending on the conditions, putting out the max power/driveshaft torque may not accelerate you best. For example; imagine driving a car on glare ice and pinning the throttle. How far will you go how fast? Probably do a few donuts and end up about where you started. If you just let up on the brake and let it idle, then accelerate very very slowly, you can eventually build up to high speeds.
ALL: Depending on the conditions, putting out the max power/driveshaft torque may not accelerate you best. For example; imagine driving a car on glare ice and pinning the throttle. How far will you go how fast? Probably do a few donuts and end up about where you started. If you just let up on the brake and let it idle, then accelerate very very slowly, you can eventually build up to high speeds.
DYNAREX
Expert
LB-
torque is a force-
take a 1 ft bar on a nut and hanf 100 lbs offit-there is 100 lb/ft of torque rt?
but if the nut dosent move you have no acceleration rt?-
or a big diesel in a semi-tons of torque but no power-hence no acceleration
but i do agree with traction being the great equalizer
torque is a force-
take a 1 ft bar on a nut and hanf 100 lbs offit-there is 100 lb/ft of torque rt?
but if the nut dosent move you have no acceleration rt?-
or a big diesel in a semi-tons of torque but no power-hence no acceleration
but i do agree with traction being the great equalizer
Torque gets you moving, HP keeps you moving. In a drag race I agree with Dynarex. Ride any 800 or 900 twin out there. That arm pull you feel from 0-80 is Torque. DYNAREX makes a good point about top RPM seeing the only way to increase top end are 3 things. RPM, Horsepower, and Gear Ratio. I agree with both arguments being the politician I am...BBY
Waterboy
Extreme
Dynarex
I am still fighting the 2 stroke metality as an old oval dude, this is just a thought.
Stock engine makes max HP(145) and torque around 9800 rpm. With ecp kit torque is flattened out from 6000 up. Not sure what the HP gains are with the kit and evac. The graph from Freddies dyno run was not very clear.
The quickest RX-1's(point A to B) pull 9800 instantly then climb to 10200 (no kit) after about 200ft
This 1000 or 1600 ft runs through timming lights.
It is torque that accelerats you. How fast you get there is HP
It sounds like you are dialed in.
Have you ran at lower engagement then pulled to top rpm?
Have you any thoughts or comments from Yamaha on spinning 10-7 and warranty issues. I was told 10-5 max would be 'iffy" with them.
If you hit 134 on dream meter you are bumping the 120mph
My goal is to get to 100 as quick as possible. My top speed goal is only 110 range. We do not lake run but run hard trail all day in North West Quebec.
I am still fighting the 2 stroke metality as an old oval dude, this is just a thought.
Stock engine makes max HP(145) and torque around 9800 rpm. With ecp kit torque is flattened out from 6000 up. Not sure what the HP gains are with the kit and evac. The graph from Freddies dyno run was not very clear.
The quickest RX-1's(point A to B) pull 9800 instantly then climb to 10200 (no kit) after about 200ft
This 1000 or 1600 ft runs through timming lights.
It is torque that accelerats you. How fast you get there is HP
It sounds like you are dialed in.
Have you ran at lower engagement then pulled to top rpm?
Have you any thoughts or comments from Yamaha on spinning 10-7 and warranty issues. I was told 10-5 max would be 'iffy" with them.
If you hit 134 on dream meter you are bumping the 120mph
My goal is to get to 100 as quick as possible. My top speed goal is only 110 range. We do not lake run but run hard trail all day in North West Quebec.
Waterboy you make some excellent points. I must agree with you. That said I have found with the ECP kit my sled runs best coming out at 10200 and climbing to 10500. I have seen 136 on the speedo which translates to high teens low twentys. Every sled does react differently and what works for me may not work for you (because of setups...track, studs, rider weight...etc). Before I installed the ECPs I was seeing similar top end numbers but it would take longer to get there. RPMs were 9900 pulling to 10200-10300. The clutch calibrations are very different in my sled than they were before the filters. Differnt HH settings, Helix, and secondary spring. No doubt the sled is making more power with the ECPs. I have to say, I couldnt be more happy with my sled. I was thinking of buying a new sled, but why?
The Pull of the RX1 with ECPs and proper clutching is incredible...BBY
The Pull of the RX1 with ECPs and proper clutching is incredible...BBY
DYNAREX
Expert
WATERBOY-
STK ENGINE IS ONLY ABOUT 135 NOT CLAIMED 145
THE EVAC AND ECP KIT GIVE YOU ABOUT 3 MOREHP AT PEAK RPM-BUT IT HOLDS THE SAME HP FROM 9900 TO 10800
IVE TRID DIFF CLUTCHING TECHNIQUES-SUCH AS HITTING MAX TORQUE AND THEN CLIMBING TO MAX HP-NO QUESTION IT "FEELS" FASTER BUT IT REALLY ISNT-MATHMATICALLY AND IN REALITY ITS FASTER WHEN YOU ARE AT PEAK HP THE WHOLE TIME
-THIS IS PROVIDING THAT THE CLUTCH IS SETUP FOR THIS-
ITS POSSIBLE AND PROBABLE THAT DUE TO THE POWER INCREASE FROM THE FILTERS THAT THE CLUTCHES ARENT REACTING FAST ENOUGH
HENCE THE REASON THAT HITTING A LOWER RPM AND CLIMBING IS FASTER ON MOST SLEDS-NOW WITH THE ECP KIT THE POWER IS THE SAME FROM 10-10800-SO RUN IT AT MORE RPM TRANSLATES TO MORE DRIVESHAFT POWER-WEATHER OR NOT THE TRACTION CAN HANDLE IT IS ANOTHER STORY-AND 11000 RPMS IS NOTHING ON THIS ENGINE-THEY CAN BE RUN TO 12000 WITH NO PROBLEMS AT ALL-EVEN THOUGH THE REV LIMITER CUTS IN BEFORE THAT BECAUSE THE CLUTCH CANT TAKE THE RPM
I CAN TELL YOU THAT OUT OF SEVERAL DIFFERENT CLUTCH SETUPS IVE GOT THE QUICKEST AND FASTEST SETUP ON MINE RIGHT NOW
STK ENGINE IS ONLY ABOUT 135 NOT CLAIMED 145
THE EVAC AND ECP KIT GIVE YOU ABOUT 3 MOREHP AT PEAK RPM-BUT IT HOLDS THE SAME HP FROM 9900 TO 10800
IVE TRID DIFF CLUTCHING TECHNIQUES-SUCH AS HITTING MAX TORQUE AND THEN CLIMBING TO MAX HP-NO QUESTION IT "FEELS" FASTER BUT IT REALLY ISNT-MATHMATICALLY AND IN REALITY ITS FASTER WHEN YOU ARE AT PEAK HP THE WHOLE TIME
-THIS IS PROVIDING THAT THE CLUTCH IS SETUP FOR THIS-
ITS POSSIBLE AND PROBABLE THAT DUE TO THE POWER INCREASE FROM THE FILTERS THAT THE CLUTCHES ARENT REACTING FAST ENOUGH
HENCE THE REASON THAT HITTING A LOWER RPM AND CLIMBING IS FASTER ON MOST SLEDS-NOW WITH THE ECP KIT THE POWER IS THE SAME FROM 10-10800-SO RUN IT AT MORE RPM TRANSLATES TO MORE DRIVESHAFT POWER-WEATHER OR NOT THE TRACTION CAN HANDLE IT IS ANOTHER STORY-AND 11000 RPMS IS NOTHING ON THIS ENGINE-THEY CAN BE RUN TO 12000 WITH NO PROBLEMS AT ALL-EVEN THOUGH THE REV LIMITER CUTS IN BEFORE THAT BECAUSE THE CLUTCH CANT TAKE THE RPM
I CAN TELL YOU THAT OUT OF SEVERAL DIFFERENT CLUTCH SETUPS IVE GOT THE QUICKEST AND FASTEST SETUP ON MINE RIGHT NOW
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
Internal combustion engines do not make horsepower. They make torque and horsepower is calculated via a formula.
Silverbullet
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Freddie, I was wondering how long it would take you to weigh in on the HP vs torque discussion :shock:
Waterboy
Extreme
Good to see Freddie sticking his head in the door.
Ain't it a bitch to be having these clutching discussions to get full advantage of the torque increases that Freddie has achieved with his kit.
Bit of a side bar here to be considered-----
Spoke to Yamaha at the Manufacturers show in Totonto on weekend.
Some of us 4 cylinder types are going to be pissed with the new 3 cyl motors if they do not have the gear reduction on the engine. These things are going to fly once tweeked with a filter kit to develope torque. The engine will be spinning full rpm. I hope by this time next year I am munching on those words.
Ain't it a bitch to be having these clutching discussions to get full advantage of the torque increases that Freddie has achieved with his kit.
Bit of a side bar here to be considered-----
Spoke to Yamaha at the Manufacturers show in Totonto on weekend.
Some of us 4 cylinder types are going to be pissed with the new 3 cyl motors if they do not have the gear reduction on the engine. These things are going to fly once tweeked with a filter kit to develope torque. The engine will be spinning full rpm. I hope by this time next year I am munching on those words.