dirtmover800
Newbie
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 4
Hey guys im new to totallyamaha. I want to go 4 stroke and have been looking around.i currently have a arctic cat M7.i rode a nytro xtx and i really liked it.I am conserding buying a nytro mtx but they lack in power a little bit.Is there any mods u can do besides a turbo or supercharger. i thinkin it would be great ith about 160hp is that possible. thanks
Confused?
Expert
Ik that for 1300 u can achieve 18 hp plus with weight loss u will be close to summit 800. Not sure if this is correct but I have heard stock nytros really run at 140hp???
The easiest thing to do is lower your expectations and think about the Nytro differently. It is a 600 class sled so think of it as a porky 600 and you'll be happy. 
The Nytro makes really good power but everyone compares it to light weight 800cc 2-strokes and with equal riders, the Nytro can't climb as high, float as good or sidehill as well. But, chances are, the Nytro won't be towed off the mountain either.
If you are a good rider and better than all your buddies than you can make a naturally aspirated Nytro work. I took my 136 1.5" Vector to places my buddies did on their 150"+ tracked 800's but I also worked much, much harder and had to take multiple runs to make it up hills that they could easily ride up. I got to try their sleds and couldn't believe how easy they were to ride. I'd get lucky because once it got deep and technical enough, someone in our group couldn't make it and we'd have to turn back. It was never me even though I was at the very edge of what the Vector could do. It's not a comforting feeling to drop down a steep face onto a glacier and be left wondering if you were going to be able to climb back out.
If all your buddy's have 800 2-strokes and are good riders, I'd just ride the same thing. Easier, cheaper, lighter and more fun. The Apex is not very maneuverable and turbos and super chargers cost a lot of money just to make a Nytro comparable to a stock 800. I know that's probably not what you want to hear.
The Nytro makes really good power but everyone compares it to light weight 800cc 2-strokes and with equal riders, the Nytro can't climb as high, float as good or sidehill as well. But, chances are, the Nytro won't be towed off the mountain either.
If you are a good rider and better than all your buddies than you can make a naturally aspirated Nytro work. I took my 136 1.5" Vector to places my buddies did on their 150"+ tracked 800's but I also worked much, much harder and had to take multiple runs to make it up hills that they could easily ride up. I got to try their sleds and couldn't believe how easy they were to ride. I'd get lucky because once it got deep and technical enough, someone in our group couldn't make it and we'd have to turn back. It was never me even though I was at the very edge of what the Vector could do. It's not a comforting feeling to drop down a steep face onto a glacier and be left wondering if you were going to be able to climb back out.
If all your buddy's have 800 2-strokes and are good riders, I'd just ride the same thing. Easier, cheaper, lighter and more fun. The Apex is not very maneuverable and turbos and super chargers cost a lot of money just to make a Nytro comparable to a stock 800. I know that's probably not what you want to hear.
beeze455
Expert
I would look into:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... ght=hindle
or one of ulmers trail performer kits
http://www.ulmerracing.com/
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... ght=hindle
or one of ulmers trail performer kits
http://www.ulmerracing.com/
akvector
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
The nytro shines with full exhaust and tuner. Also with a timbersled skid or similar will drop a bunch of weight. You should be able to pull 150 with exhaust maybe air intake from ulmer and the pcv commander. I am still debating about the exhaust and waiting for the coin. If you buy new you can get good deal on turbo/super somthing to think about there.
Wow, I had no idea it ran $1400 for 18 more horse power! I don't think that is worth it as you end up at what 138 + 18 = 156 HP (being optimistic)? Figure an MTX is 532lbs and that works out to 3.41 HP per pound. A 600 RMK is over 100 lbs lighter and at 125 HP it's HP to pound ratio is 3.44. You are now at the same basic HP to weight ratio as a plain jane 600 with no mods.
I think a guy is better off spending the money and installing a turbo or a super charger to make a bunch more power. It appears that a PUSH turbo makes 180 HP so that makes the HP to weight ratio of 2.95. A stock RMK 800 at 150 HP and 431 pounds is at 2.87. In short you need a turbo to come close to the stock performance of the lowest powered 800cc mountain sled.
It is too bad that Yamaha doesn't offer the Apex engine in the Nytro. Then you would have 160 hp of reliable, factory developed and tested power. Even though you still not compare to the 800's, you move up into the 700 class.
I think a guy is better off spending the money and installing a turbo or a super charger to make a bunch more power. It appears that a PUSH turbo makes 180 HP so that makes the HP to weight ratio of 2.95. A stock RMK 800 at 150 HP and 431 pounds is at 2.87. In short you need a turbo to come close to the stock performance of the lowest powered 800cc mountain sled.
It is too bad that Yamaha doesn't offer the Apex engine in the Nytro. Then you would have 160 hp of reliable, factory developed and tested power. Even though you still not compare to the 800's, you move up into the 700 class.
akvector said:
Not to mention if you have to finance, it is still part of a new sled purchase.
Kevin, someday,,hopefully this year we need to hook up and ride.
tapex_07
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,160
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- '10 Nytro MTX SE IMPULSE 174x3
'14 Viper XTX SE MPI 159x14x1.25
'07 Apex RTX SC2 MPI 128x1
When figuring those numbers, dont forget to use ready to ride weights. Dry weights are totally different....
My buddys '11 Pro RMK 800 163 with 2/3 tank of fuel was 525 last year on a certified scale. Add a full tank, 555lbs / 155hp = 3.58 lbs/hp..
Now a stock MTX is gona be close to the 620 mark full of fuel. Give it the 156hp and you get about 3.97lb/hp.. And depending on the weight savings of the Hindle, it should be a better number.
Oh and last year in Cooke, the fuel consumption was very close between our sleds at days end. Typically he put in .2-.4 gallons less than me. He was stock and Im boosted!
My buddys '11 Pro RMK 800 163 with 2/3 tank of fuel was 525 last year on a certified scale. Add a full tank, 555lbs / 155hp = 3.58 lbs/hp..
Now a stock MTX is gona be close to the 620 mark full of fuel. Give it the 156hp and you get about 3.97lb/hp.. And depending on the weight savings of the Hindle, it should be a better number.
Oh and last year in Cooke, the fuel consumption was very close between our sleds at days end. Typically he put in .2-.4 gallons less than me. He was stock and Im boosted!
As a former yammie guy hope you don't mind me chiming in 
The key factor int he hills that differentiates the 4's from the 2's is torque...yes you are heavier, but your torque curve is linear and a 2 smoke is hockey stick....
What this means in real world is, you can lose RPM on a 4 stroke and maintain torque....whereas a 2 loses it, and has to turn out...
I have personally out limbed lots of sleds pre boost at elevation, for the very reason of torque...
Now keep in mind I am NOT saying these sleds are power machines, but they are more than capable if you do some weight saving stuff...and they are infinitely tunable with boost...
Just my opinion, as some one who dumped significant cash into my sled....here is the order in which I would do things now....
1- Timbersled rear skid drops (depending on model year) 35-45lbs.
2- Skinz concept front end (insane how much better sled handles with this kit)
3- Oft steering relocator
4- lightweight battery (lithium ferrous) drops 11 lbs. for $150+/-
5- boost....transforms the sled into a slayer, but I a, conservative, and waited to do boost till my sled hit 500 miles...
Lots of stuff can be done easily (batteries etc) lots of stuff cost big money, but is well worth it!!!!
The key factor int he hills that differentiates the 4's from the 2's is torque...yes you are heavier, but your torque curve is linear and a 2 smoke is hockey stick....
What this means in real world is, you can lose RPM on a 4 stroke and maintain torque....whereas a 2 loses it, and has to turn out...
I have personally out limbed lots of sleds pre boost at elevation, for the very reason of torque...
Now keep in mind I am NOT saying these sleds are power machines, but they are more than capable if you do some weight saving stuff...and they are infinitely tunable with boost...
Just my opinion, as some one who dumped significant cash into my sled....here is the order in which I would do things now....
1- Timbersled rear skid drops (depending on model year) 35-45lbs.
2- Skinz concept front end (insane how much better sled handles with this kit)
3- Oft steering relocator
4- lightweight battery (lithium ferrous) drops 11 lbs. for $150+/-
5- boost....transforms the sled into a slayer, but I a, conservative, and waited to do boost till my sled hit 500 miles...
Lots of stuff can be done easily (batteries etc) lots of stuff cost big money, but is well worth it!!!!
I used the weights I could find on the OEM websites and snowmobile.com. Weights can be debated endlessly, for instance, the wet weight of a Nytro and another 2-stroke mountain sled may be closer but the Nytro has less range because it is only carrying 7.5 gallons of fuel. Then you add a Trail Tank or a jug on the back and the wet weight goes up.
If a guy buys a new MTX and wants to have a sled perform at a similar level to a stock 800, you'll end up with a $20,000 snowmachine. The Yamaha reliability has diminsihed because a boosted sled requires more care and feeding than a stock engine. The light weight suspension parts are fragile and more prone to breaking than the stock parts. A Yamaha with all those mods is money pit that a guy won't get his money back out of. To each their own but just so the OP is aware, make sure you head down this road with your eyes wide open. If you have your heart set on a Yamaha, I think you'd be better off buying a modified used sled for pennies on the dollar that someone else already lost their butt on.
Yamaha doesn't offer a stock sled that competes at the 800 level. I personally think if you want to ride at that level it makes more sense economically to buy a 2-stroke mountain sled, ride it for a year or two, sell it/trade it in and buy another brand new sled. Once you make the initial investment you'll lose several thousand each year but you'll always have the latest and greatest.
If a guy buys a new MTX and wants to have a sled perform at a similar level to a stock 800, you'll end up with a $20,000 snowmachine. The Yamaha reliability has diminsihed because a boosted sled requires more care and feeding than a stock engine. The light weight suspension parts are fragile and more prone to breaking than the stock parts. A Yamaha with all those mods is money pit that a guy won't get his money back out of. To each their own but just so the OP is aware, make sure you head down this road with your eyes wide open. If you have your heart set on a Yamaha, I think you'd be better off buying a modified used sled for pennies on the dollar that someone else already lost their butt on.
Yamaha doesn't offer a stock sled that competes at the 800 level. I personally think if you want to ride at that level it makes more sense economically to buy a 2-stroke mountain sled, ride it for a year or two, sell it/trade it in and buy another brand new sled. Once you make the initial investment you'll lose several thousand each year but you'll always have the latest and greatest.
Your every post being negative is really getting old, Reminds me of Snowest! If you can't make a affordable performance Yamaha then you should have no problem working my $6000, 3300 mile Nytro Next weekend.
And last time I did the math excluding fuel since they all burn it. My nytro cost's penny's to ride. A 2 smoke between engines and oil is about $2 a mile. Eat your heart out on your New IQR, It's just not for me and your post's justifying it are getting old.
And last time I did the math excluding fuel since they all burn it. My nytro cost's penny's to ride. A 2 smoke between engines and oil is about $2 a mile. Eat your heart out on your New IQR, It's just not for me and your post's justifying it are getting old.
Ricky,
I'm not trying to justify anything and my response in the handling thread wasn't directed at you. After I posted I realized you could have taken it that way and it certianly wasn't my intention. In that thread as in this one, the original poster was new to Yamaha and all things Yamaha are not peaches and cream. What's wrong with letting them know that?
What you did with your '08 is the smart way to build a Yamaha mountain sled. The original poster asked about a Nytro for the mountains and I gave him my opinion. How people want to spend their money makes no difference to me. I even said it made more sense to buy used so you don't end up with a $20,000 sled.
I get as many people on this forum thanking me for my honest, objective opinions as I do people being upset that I'm critical of Yamaha. If all anyone does on this forum is ignore the bad and praise the good we will continue to be where we are at, same old same old with Nytro's that have not received major updates in years. If the product managers at Yamaha have nothing to take to the higher ups about people wanting improvements, nothing will happen. The '08 front end was not updated because Yamaha decided to be nice, it was because people complained and posted in forums and the media that it was an ill-handling POS.
I'm not trying to justify anything and my response in the handling thread wasn't directed at you. After I posted I realized you could have taken it that way and it certianly wasn't my intention. In that thread as in this one, the original poster was new to Yamaha and all things Yamaha are not peaches and cream. What's wrong with letting them know that?
What you did with your '08 is the smart way to build a Yamaha mountain sled. The original poster asked about a Nytro for the mountains and I gave him my opinion. How people want to spend their money makes no difference to me. I even said it made more sense to buy used so you don't end up with a $20,000 sled.
I get as many people on this forum thanking me for my honest, objective opinions as I do people being upset that I'm critical of Yamaha. If all anyone does on this forum is ignore the bad and praise the good we will continue to be where we are at, same old same old with Nytro's that have not received major updates in years. If the product managers at Yamaha have nothing to take to the higher ups about people wanting improvements, nothing will happen. The '08 front end was not updated because Yamaha decided to be nice, it was because people complained and posted in forums and the media that it was an ill-handling POS.
hugger70mtnmax
Expert
I think you are being a bit hard on the Nytro. I bought my 09 last year for 5800 with about five hundred miles on it. Since then I have some money into it but still less than ten thousand and I think it will do pretty well against a lot of the newer 800 sleds. I should be able to ride it for quite a few years without any major troubles which can't be said for most two strokes. That doesn't sound like a money pit to me.
I think the Nytro fills a niche in the market quite well for someone that doesn't want the two stroke smell and the worry of it breaking.
I think the Nytro fills a niche in the market quite well for someone that doesn't want the two stroke smell and the worry of it breaking.
I agree, you bought it used and modded it. That's the smart way to do it.
HYFLYR
TY 4 Stroke Guru
YOu keep saying $20k but yet most dealers including myself were selling super and turbo mtn's nytro's for 14,495 for a brand new 2012 out the door. So you get a 180hp sled with a warranty, sounds like a great deal to me and 5k left to do whatever you want.
Yeah they arent the lightest, the dont handle the best, they are still VERY reliable if and i will even say more reliable than 2 strokes even boosted. At the end of the day I am tired but I still have fun and thats the whole reason im out there, to have fun. To say this isnt a fun sled is, well kinda silly. I can take my nytro anywhere others go and then some, hell, I would rather ride this than a xp anyday because those things are harder to ride than a darn bearcat if you ask me. To each there own but Ill stick with my nytro.
Yeah they arent the lightest, the dont handle the best, they are still VERY reliable if and i will even say more reliable than 2 strokes even boosted. At the end of the day I am tired but I still have fun and thats the whole reason im out there, to have fun. To say this isnt a fun sled is, well kinda silly. I can take my nytro anywhere others go and then some, hell, I would rather ride this than a xp anyday because those things are harder to ride than a darn bearcat if you ask me. To each there own but Ill stick with my nytro.
