07 Attak Won't Start When Plugged In?

[kenbar]

O7 Attak with 800 miles. Live in NorthEast Canada where temperatures get down to -30C. On a few occasions, I left mine out and plugged in the block heater. When I do this, it turns over like crazy but won't fire! I have to try several starts with the throttle pressed in order for it to eventually fire. Luckily it is on a new battery or I would kill the battery trying to start it on cold days. When I do not plug it in, it fires in a couple of turns. I have tried this on warmer days as well with similar results. I know the short answer to this is not plug it in but at some point I will be in a situation where this will be required.

Any theories as to what is going on? The dealer has no answers yet.

 

[sawsalesman]

When you turn the key to the first position do you hear the fuel pump come on? Most of the time the cold temperatures will cause the fuel relay to not operate and the machine will not start. I don't think this problem has anything to do with your block heater. If you put a heater on the left side of the machine near the footwell it will warm up the relay and it will fire up. This happened to 3 of us who rode in Quebec this winter in extremely cold conditions. It only happened in the morning after the machines sat out all night in the really cold temps. As soon as we warmed up the relay they fired right up. There are 4 relays located in this area. I'm not sure which one is for the fuel pump but when you put heat in that area it frees the correct relay and lets it start.

 

[rlbock]

There has been an issue with the fuel pump relay malfunctioning when temps get cold. Normally when you turn the key to on you will hear the fuel pump cycle, if you don't hear that noise then I would suspect that the relay is not working. The relay is one of four located on the back side of the left foot well, there will be four mounted there, my pump relay was the one closest to the tunnel, Yamaha has revised the part number which means it's been changed so you have to assume it is a fix for a bad relay. If you put the sled in a warm area it will start with no problem, again indicating that the relay is affected by cold temps. Replace the relay and you should be good to go.

 

[kenbar]

The wierd thing about this is that I did hear the fuel pump cycle each time. Is it possible that the heat from the circulator is fooling a sensor somewhere?

 

[rlbock]

I wouldn't think the act of keeping the engine warm would affect anything, warm up the relay area or the whole sled and see if your problem is solved, if it starts have your dealer talk to Yamaha about the replacement relay. I would replace it myself in lieu of taking the sled to the dealer. The cost of the relay is about $8.00. Another thing to try is to tap on the relay to free it up. Let me know what the outcome is.

 

[kenbar]

Thanks rlbock,

Do you know which one of the four relays is for the fuel pump? I will replace it today and try the test again..

Kenbar

 

[sawsalesman]

Just pull one of the relays to see which one it is. It seems that no two machines are the same.

 

[rlbock]

As i said mine was the relay closest to the tunnel, there's four there and some have said that the pump relay has been in different positions, if you get it started you can then feel which one turns on when the key is turned prior to starting.

 

[kenbar]

As per the suggestions, I replaced the relay and still experiencing the same starting problem when the block heater is used. When left outside and plugged in it doesn't want to start easily. (only after several attempts and giving it throttle with an obvious smell of gas) When not plugged in, starts right away.

Anyone else with suggestions? Similar to the problem in the carb'd machines when the choke is not used properly.

 

[Soldier'spapa]

It sounds to me like you may be thinking along the right lines with regard to carbed engines and the choke. In a fuel injected engine the choke is substituted by running the fuel system (On a cold engine) richer than it would otherwise be run. The ecm's in cars use the coolant temp sensor and air temp sensor to determine how much enrichment is required to provide proper operation. When a fuel injected car does not imediatly start it is often necessary to give the engine partial throttle or even full throttle to allow more air into the mixture to get it to fire. It's too rich upon startup and floods the engine..... You said there is an obvious raw gas smell.... I think your sled is flooding, it's too rich upon startup when using the heater.

The question becomes... Why?

The heater, I presume is located in a coolant hose low in the engine. I also presume it heats the surrounding coolant but does not circulate the coolant. Perhaps the coolant sensor is reading much colder coolant than is available at the cylinder walls causing the ecm to run the fuel system richer than it needs to be. If this is the case it may be necessary to give it some throttle from the first crank, or perhaps locate the heater to a different spot.... What do ya think?

 

[Kaz]

I read on here some where the coolant heater fools the temp sensor in thinking the engine is warmer than it actual is and hence messes with the EFI system. From what I read your better without it and I think you proved the point.

Kaz

 

[kenbar]

Hi Doug,

The heater is actually located next to the chaincase in the line that runs down in front of it. It is actually very close to what appears to be the coolant temperature sensor. The system works by the heated coolant moving the cold coolant and eventually the complete system is warm. Temperature difference results in circulation.

All of the machines with block heaters have the heaters installed in the same place. No one else that I know of in the area has this problem and there are many machines with block heaters, including Apex, Attak's, Ventures, etc.

I was thinking that either the coolant sensor or the air temperature sensor is fooled into thinking it is warmer out than actual with the circulating heat and is somehow making it more/ less rich. However, if this was the case, all the machines would behave the same. And, the heater is a Yamaha accessory and recommended for cold temperaure starts!

Not comfortable holding the throttle to start everytime as this could cause other problems.

Doesn't need to be plugged in often however many of us have been in areas where it dips down pretty cold in the morning. With a slightly older and used battery, it would be hit or miss to start. The block heater can make a big difference to starting if it worked correctly and it helps the engine on cold starts.

A big mystery so far..

 

[Soldier'spapa]

If other identical machines are not experiencing this symptom you need to find the item that is unknowingly different in your sled. That item might be; a failed coolant temp sensor, colder spark plugs, modified air intake, fuel injector spraying too much fuel, faulty ecm.

Is your sled using about the same amount of fuel as other Attaks between fill-ups? Maybe it's running rich all the time.

What would be great is if you had a willing friend that you could swap parts out between sleds. Swap them out one part at a time, try starting the sleds after using the heaters and when the symptom moves over to your friends sled you'll have it identified. I would begin the swap out with the coolant temp sensor.

Hope you find it.... keep us posted.

 

[WANN4STROKE]

I was told my dealer to NOT use an inline heater on fuel injected engine but to use an oil pan heater. Said that was from Yamaha.

 

[timc]

Block heater.

I had my dealer install one on my '07 Attak. When he ordered it from Yamaha, he was told they had a concern that the heated coolant would "fool" the EFI system into the wrong fuel setting for start up. It senses the cold air but the water is warm in other words. They recommended against it on the EFI models. No problem for carburated sleds.

I have one but probably won't use it unless I need to, based on your experience.

TimC.