07 RTX FOX FLOAT CONVERSION

[scott32]

Curiosity has me wondering if anybody has done a float conversion on this poorly calibrated rear suspension? I understand that Nextech has a conversion kit for the mountain sleds. How about for us flatlanders looking to change our bricks into pillows with memory foam?

 

[apexrtxmaniac]

I thought about it however the problem with our suspension is not just that the calibrations are terrible but the shaft speed has a very odd curve to it. If you did the conversion you would need to get the float re-valved. IMO getting a re-valve with and add a resi on the center shock it would be a better performing system. Air-shocks are a far less compliant than traditional dampeners. A re-valve does wolds for this sled. With a good re-valve it performs better than most of the best stock suspensions. However it is a fun rough trail suspension, not a cruiser cloud...that is what why they made the mono.
If you want a cloud get a M-10 used, I have been amazed by the m-10's I've rode...however be prepared to lose weight transfer, playfulness and top end. The zx2 has really good reviews but I have no personal experience.

 

[scott32]

Thanks for the reply maniac! I agree, and maybe I should have chosen my words more careful as far as pillows with memory foam. I have read REx's sticky on the progressive valve dampening and have thought long and hard about doing a revalve. However, I would love to dump those springs and shave some weight in the same breath. The zx2 is my top choice for a replacement. I am thinking for half the cost of a zx2, wether it is 2 replacement fox airs or si tech fr and fox2 rr? dunno? Maybe a knock off design of a timbersled, uncoupling the shocks to work independant. There is more to be had out this rear suspension. Just wondering if anyone has already done this. Or will the mountain conversion fit the 121 skid? Thanks for any advise guys.

 

[4x4]

I like this idea, could you have a look to see if there is room for the thicker shock near the top?

 

[scott32]

4x4, what do you mean by "thicker " shock? The floats do have a thicker eye? Is this what you were referring to? There is adapters and extensions for the floats to mount in where there are clearance issues. These are used by nextech for their mountain sled conversion. There is no doubt that this is achievable. I am hoping somebody has done this with great results as I hate to throw money at an idea that ends up 2 slices sort of a full loaf.

 

[4x4]

I mean the shaft on a float might be 2" thick instead of 1/2" like the stock one where it passes the shaft of the suspension.

 

[scott32]

I mean the shaft on a float might be 2" thick instead of 1/2" like the stock one where it passes the shaft of the suspension.

Yes, this is where the adapter comes into play!

 

[ahicks]

Thanks for the reply maniac! I agree, and maybe I should have chosen my words more careful as far as pillows with memory foam. I have read REx's sticky on the progressive valve dampening and have thought long and hard about doing a revalve. However, I would love to dump those springs and shave some weight in the same breath. The zx2 is my top choice for a replacement. I am thinking for half the cost of a zx2, wether it is 2 replacement fox airs or si tech fr and fox2 rr? dunno? Maybe a knock off design of a timbersled, uncoupling the shocks to work independant. There is more to be had out this rear suspension. Just wondering if anyone has already done this. Or will the mountain conversion fit the 121 skid? Thanks for any advise guys.

On the bold, that was my thought when I tried to straighten it out. I threw the towel in after realizing 3 major points.

The first was the geometry of the suspension that allows it to release track tension as it compresses. This was the biggest piece for me, and I saw no way around it. It makes track ratcheting impossible to control without extroverts (if you want to use all of the available suspension travel). The downside to extraverts, not including any labor, would be the expense of the drivers, and I would replace the track, hating the Ripsaw to start with.

The second piece would be the time spent figuring out the correct shock valving, though REX and I were working closely at the time and I'm sure he would have shared that info. I do my own though. Most will have to pay to have that done.

Third, when you get the track to stop ratcheting and the shocks calibrated as they should have been from the factory, THEN you run into reliability issues. Cracked rails, cronic limiter strap breakage, idler wheel issues, etc.

I replaced the entire suspension AND track for well under 1000. and consider myself WAY out in front for having done that. That bought me out from under the burden of the list above and gave me a well tuned suspension with unbelievable (by Yammi standards) reliability.

My point? I wouldn't spend a dime on that suspension. Get a different one.

 

[scott32]

Quitter!!! LOL I again understand the issues. The 121" Nytros also have ratcheting probs. Does this deem them an unfit suspension too? Uncoupling the rear puts less stress on the limiter straps. Please elaborate on the idler wheel isses? If we keep our eyes looking in one direction we may not see what is right beside us. I have read alot of your post and you settled with what you know. This can be said for myself too, as I am stuck on improving this suspension and have a '01 proX beside me. What year is the proX you installed?

 

[ahicks]

Quitter!!! LOL I again understand the issues. The 121" Nytros also have ratcheting probs. Does this deem them an unfit suspension too? Uncoupling the rear puts less stress on the limiter straps. Please elaborate on the idler wheel isses? If we keep our eyes looking in one direction we may not see what is right beside us. I have read alot of your post and you settled with what you know. This can be said for myself too, as I am stuck on improving this suspension and have a '01 proX beside me. What year is the proX you installed?

That's funny! Quitter is what REX said too. I told him he was being bull headed, which he admitted to. I couln't get mine to work as I wanted, but he was breaking parts left and right..... often up till late welding his back together for a trip scheduled for the following day. You can do a search and pick up on a lot of our conversations back then, but for every one you find, there were many other PM's.

The earlier Nitro uses that same suspension, it's got the same issues, with an extra one. The "rocker" that goes between the bottom of both shocks is a stamping on them - creating another weak spot.

Uncoupling the rear lets the suspension collapse easier, causing the ratcheting problem to grow worse. You're wanting to restrict the suspenion travel to keep the track tight. Guys often pull up on the limiters to do about the same, but that leads to a constant string of broken limiters.

Idler wheels were delaminating left and right originally, didn't have replaceable bearings. Nothing that can't be fixed, but ANOTHER expense you can add to the list to make that skid right.

The comment regarding going with what I know was made AFTER deciding to replace the existing suspension. I used what experience I had, and those of others (like REX) that were having identical issues to try making that original skid work. I plain ran out of ideas and refused to settle for anything less than a level of performance the rest of the sled was capable of. What I meant by that comment is that if you have Cat or Doo experience, those skids can work equally well - and you may have the knowledge/parts available to dial one of them in easier than the Poo skid I went with.

I used an 01 ProX suspension, though any of the ProX would work as well. It's SUPPOSED to be the least desirable. Super stiff shocks and a front arm that's heavier but not as strong are the problems you most often hear about. The little extra weight (we're talking about an Apex here) didn't bother me, and I've never broken it (or ANY other part on the skid!!). Regarding the shocks, I do my own so it wasn't a big deal. -Al

 

[scott32]

I have my limiters all the way out with zero preload on the FR spring, torsions on soft and full transfer on the rear couplers. And yes it will ratchet in certain situations but I believe extros will cure this as I aslo believe most higher HP sled should be equiped with these to redece the strain on the track anyway. My ski shocks at 70psi revalved and thus far with only 100 miles it suits but bottoms easily due to rear shock valving. An uncoupled float shock in the rear with proper valving and air pressure will eliminate the torsion springs and give a better ride ie: Timbersled. Perhaps I'm just as stubborn as Rex but I can't bring myself to using another manufactures skid in my Yammi!! What would my riding buds say if they saw that? HA HA. 20 years of wrenching and riding on POO and Cat, they've all needed improvements, and I've always had a Yammi in the stable and will keep riding Yammi. Lots of snow here in south western Ontario this year so for the remainder of this year I will ride as is. I was really hoping somebody had already done a conversion to give some sort of base line direction with shocks but perhaps a summer time project when I'm not worried about down time.

 

[apexrtxmaniac]

I completely agree about the extros...something I plan on doing to mine in the future along with a different track. The delaminating wheels can also be fixed by replacing them with the new excell wheels (on my list of things to do when I get up enough cash).
I really like the idea of converting to the float setup, it just seems like it would be a lot of time and work for what it is worth. Unless you have some kind of hookup to get fox floats cheep that is.
If I were to try to get a float setup in my sled I would replace my skid with a used crossfire skid. However, since you don't want to jump ship (which is understandable, I kept the ratcheting/delaminating/cracking skid after all) I would check classifieds/sled boneyards and try to find the skid out of a nytro mtx se (the one with floats). Once you have that skid in hand I am sure that with that baseline of parts and shocks it would make putting a frankenstein together much easier. With a little fabrication you might end up adapting the arms of the nytro skid to fit the proactive rails. At least this way you would have shocks and a design to model off of.
I like where this idea is going, keep us up to date as things progress!

 

[scott32]

Funny you call it a Frankenstien! That's the name I call 'er!!! LMAO Also my handle on snowest where I'm looking at the se skids!

 

[albin]

Funny you call it a Frankenstien! That's the name I call 'er!!! LMAO Also my handle on snowest where I'm looking at the se skids!

Some news here?

 

[scott32]

albin, I had contacted REX and went with a revalve similar to the spec specified in his thread. I wrote down everything and handed it to a my shock guy and he then adjusted and did his thing. It's not what I call perfect, but it was a good improvement. I had since found a ZX2 for an amazing price $450 with only 600 miles on it. I would have loved to try the Yamaha lightweight chrome-moly float rear conversion, but my R&D budget didn't allow for it. The Yammi kit is basicly the same thing as the Cat float rear kit from BDX, rebranded, which cat then used in their skids, and now in the current Vipers. So it will work. You can pick up a cat float skid for less than the Yammi kit. Now that Yammi and Cat are in bed together its not really cheating either! You can stay brand loyal..LMAO..Cheers, Scott