LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
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Had a little bit of a question about where to put this thread, but decided that since parts of it apply to all DB/II sleds since 03, that this would be the best place.
My observations are made against a 2003RX1 and parts coming from a 2005RXW, which shares most of these parts with all DB/II sleds 2004 and newer.
Background:
At the end of last winter, I managed to find a buried rock. This rock had the effect of pretzeling my left lower A-arm. I pretty much put the thing away and didn't so much as look at it until a couple of weeks ago asides from acquiring a replacement for the pretzel -- in this case, I got a whole used left side front end from an 05 warrior from a member of this forum. After electrical rust removal (I was actually *very* surprised at how rusty the parts were - looked like it had been left on a beach in cuba for 15 years) and a prime/base/clear, it was good as new and ready to install.
Last weekend I pulled it apart with the intention of putting it back together on the same day, figuring that if anything besides the arm was damaged, that I would have the needed replacements. Well the disassembly was difficult, had to make a bolt/pipe/washer tool to remove the bulkhead pivot pin, which came out with a bend of about 3 degrees -- not a lot, but enough that I couldn't reuse this pivot pin.
So I figured that I would use the pin from the 05, which is where my interesting observations begin;
2003 parts diagram: http://parts.yamaha-motor.com/partimage ... =23711,2,0
2004: http://parts.yamaha-motor.com/partimage ... =57909,2,0
Now for the sake of comparison, I've included the parts diagram for a 2004RX1, however, these differences are applicable to ALL DB/II sleds up to at least 2008.
My first observation is regarding parts 45 and 48 from the 03 diagram. This is a hollow tube pivot pin with a long bolt through it. When I examined the 05RXW pivot pin, I found that there was no longer a separate pin/tube and bolt, but that it was instead a solid bar part 43 on the 04 diagram. The upper would also be replaced with a solid bar.
My second observation is that part 33 from 03 has been eliminated. This is the side effect of the change to the solid bar, it is no longer possible to put part 33 between the bolt head and the pivot tube/pin.
Effects of these changes;
1) part 33 prevents the pivot pins from turning in the bulkhead. You'll note that the bulkhead bushings are very thin, but that the inner A-arm bushings are quite thick. In an 03, there will be no wear against the bulkhead bushings since the pin doesn't move. Since 03, the bulkhead bushings have become an essential maintenance item.
2) the solid bar pivot pin is harder to bend than the hollow 03 bar. My hollow 03 pin bent when the A-arm pretzeled. What would have happened if that pin couldn't bend?
If the pivot pin won't give, something else must. It doesn't take much movement for a cast aluminum bulkhead to crack, certainly much less movement than the bend in my pivot pin, which tells me that if the pin didn't bend, the bulkhead may have broken. The 04+ pivot pin is solid and stronger than the 03, so with an 04+ pin, the bulkhead may have broken in the impact that pretzeled the arm.
Second round of observations;
There have been quite a number of reports of broken bulkheads, even from impacts that did NOT cause significant damage to the A-arm - impacts significantly LESS than what mine sustained. This got me thinking and remembering... back in the first winter of this forum (at the time called rx1.info), seemed that every day someone was saying that they slammed through a concrete wall or put their skis on the wrong side of a buried log and did a serious number of the front suspension, but that they were surprised because the bulkhead was fine. There are, of course, exceptions... EVERYTHING can be broken, but it wasn't until the NEXT year - the 2004 model year - that the reports of broken bulkheads started to really show up.
Now I don't know the reason why they changed these parts, could be to simplify things, or it could be to increase the parts revenue for replacement bulkheads (broken or ones for which the bushing wore through). The 04+ pin is no less heavy than the combination of tube, bolt, and "part 33" from 2003, so it is definitely NOT a weight issue. Whatever it is, based on these thoughts, I opted to discard the 2005 pivot pin and instead bought the same one that came off. I believe that this is better for two reasons; 1) increased flexibility means less of a chance of breaking the bulkhead if the same were to happen again, 2) the pivot pin will not rotate in the bulkhead, which means that the thick A-arm bushings will wear rather than the thin bulkhead bushings.
My observations are made against a 2003RX1 and parts coming from a 2005RXW, which shares most of these parts with all DB/II sleds 2004 and newer.
Background:
At the end of last winter, I managed to find a buried rock. This rock had the effect of pretzeling my left lower A-arm. I pretty much put the thing away and didn't so much as look at it until a couple of weeks ago asides from acquiring a replacement for the pretzel -- in this case, I got a whole used left side front end from an 05 warrior from a member of this forum. After electrical rust removal (I was actually *very* surprised at how rusty the parts were - looked like it had been left on a beach in cuba for 15 years) and a prime/base/clear, it was good as new and ready to install.
Last weekend I pulled it apart with the intention of putting it back together on the same day, figuring that if anything besides the arm was damaged, that I would have the needed replacements. Well the disassembly was difficult, had to make a bolt/pipe/washer tool to remove the bulkhead pivot pin, which came out with a bend of about 3 degrees -- not a lot, but enough that I couldn't reuse this pivot pin.
So I figured that I would use the pin from the 05, which is where my interesting observations begin;
2003 parts diagram: http://parts.yamaha-motor.com/partimage ... =23711,2,0
2004: http://parts.yamaha-motor.com/partimage ... =57909,2,0
Now for the sake of comparison, I've included the parts diagram for a 2004RX1, however, these differences are applicable to ALL DB/II sleds up to at least 2008.
My first observation is regarding parts 45 and 48 from the 03 diagram. This is a hollow tube pivot pin with a long bolt through it. When I examined the 05RXW pivot pin, I found that there was no longer a separate pin/tube and bolt, but that it was instead a solid bar part 43 on the 04 diagram. The upper would also be replaced with a solid bar.
My second observation is that part 33 from 03 has been eliminated. This is the side effect of the change to the solid bar, it is no longer possible to put part 33 between the bolt head and the pivot tube/pin.
Effects of these changes;
1) part 33 prevents the pivot pins from turning in the bulkhead. You'll note that the bulkhead bushings are very thin, but that the inner A-arm bushings are quite thick. In an 03, there will be no wear against the bulkhead bushings since the pin doesn't move. Since 03, the bulkhead bushings have become an essential maintenance item.
2) the solid bar pivot pin is harder to bend than the hollow 03 bar. My hollow 03 pin bent when the A-arm pretzeled. What would have happened if that pin couldn't bend?
If the pivot pin won't give, something else must. It doesn't take much movement for a cast aluminum bulkhead to crack, certainly much less movement than the bend in my pivot pin, which tells me that if the pin didn't bend, the bulkhead may have broken. The 04+ pivot pin is solid and stronger than the 03, so with an 04+ pin, the bulkhead may have broken in the impact that pretzeled the arm.
Second round of observations;
There have been quite a number of reports of broken bulkheads, even from impacts that did NOT cause significant damage to the A-arm - impacts significantly LESS than what mine sustained. This got me thinking and remembering... back in the first winter of this forum (at the time called rx1.info), seemed that every day someone was saying that they slammed through a concrete wall or put their skis on the wrong side of a buried log and did a serious number of the front suspension, but that they were surprised because the bulkhead was fine. There are, of course, exceptions... EVERYTHING can be broken, but it wasn't until the NEXT year - the 2004 model year - that the reports of broken bulkheads started to really show up.
Now I don't know the reason why they changed these parts, could be to simplify things, or it could be to increase the parts revenue for replacement bulkheads (broken or ones for which the bushing wore through). The 04+ pin is no less heavy than the combination of tube, bolt, and "part 33" from 2003, so it is definitely NOT a weight issue. Whatever it is, based on these thoughts, I opted to discard the 2005 pivot pin and instead bought the same one that came off. I believe that this is better for two reasons; 1) increased flexibility means less of a chance of breaking the bulkhead if the same were to happen again, 2) the pivot pin will not rotate in the bulkhead, which means that the thick A-arm bushings will wear rather than the thin bulkhead bushings.
nytroERrider
Expert
Good write up LB, that makes me wonder if yamaha really did that to make the $$, because it doesnt really make sense why yamaha would do that other than make the big bucks?!?! Smart decision i think on which pin to go with. Maybe i will do this to my Nytro, it may pay off in the long run.
Thanks LB
Jake
Thanks LB
Jake
Good post w/ great observations.
IMO it is safe to say Yamaha wants to sell more bushings and bulkheads.... or sleds.
IMO it is safe to say Yamaha wants to sell more bushings and bulkheads.... or sleds.
Tom-RX1
Expert
dealers need work without engine failers the dealers are not getting as many repairs .
Tom-RX1
Tom-RX1
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
This is very interesting indeed; I couldn’t understand why the bulkhead bushings were so thin while the A-arm ones were 3-4 times the thickness. This explains it though, a design change that in the past wouldn’t have required the thin bushings to be a wear item. I also think that if you have the pivot pin solid from front to back it ties the front and rear of the bulkhead together making it much stronger. As it is now the slight play in fit allows for the front to move independent from the rear mount. Good catch LB.
