C&A Pro Razors - Setup

[welterracer]

Hell i think the stock skis steer hard expecially with the thicker 13mm bar..

I want to find a ski with LESS sking effort if anything

 

[Riceburner]

Bountyhunter,

Your first post is EXCELLENT advice.

I disagree with the part of your second post where you give your opinion that shimming will lighten up the front end.

Imho, shimming ski's on the back of the stopper decreases darting but increases the steering effort especially at slow speeds.

That is what I have found anyhow. I also found the steering effort greatly increases when you overshim.

I need to be very conscious of steering effort on my wifes sled as she does not have a lot of strength due to a stroke a couple of years ago.

If one thinks of the physics it explains it , [I think] If you have more pressure ahead of the pivot point while moving forward it will make the front easier to move. [ Will also make it darty or squirrelly like having your weight forward on water ski's. ] Of course I am just an ol salesman not an engineer so I could be wrong. [no sarcasm intended]

Of course this post may be mute as you may not have been referring to steering effort at all.

Also my opinion may be worth Jack anyhow since I find my GT very drivable and not darty with only a little tracking with the stock ski's while others say that theres are so darty that they can hardly drive them.



Dave

edited for clarity. first post unclear which made it improper.

 

[n2oiroc]

if you shim them properly, effort is reduced and stability and tracking are much better. i still dont think you can take that agressive of a ski and have low steering effort.

 

[bjniceguy]

Simmons turn hard also in the right conditions. They will also dart if following another set of simmons or ski doo precision. I think the problem is too much weight on the ski's with the mono. Have not figured out how to cut down ski pressure when not excellerating.

 

[Riceburner]

Bountyhunter,

Sorry, I was totally unclear above.
I do not disagree with your post on set up at all. It is excellent advice.
I have done the same thing with four of the eight Yamahas I have owned.
It has made them much better driving sleds.
The only thing I disagree with is the part of your second post where you say that shimming will reduce the steering effort. By that I mean the amount of effort to turn the ski's while moving forward.
That being said, I would much rather have a little more steering effort than a sled that darts, by a long shot.
Perhaps I have overshimmed in the past. I notice Scott is recommending
thinner shims now than he used to.
As you say, we are all entitled to our opinion and I was expressing mine, however it was done poorly. I apologize.
Hope I got back to you before you got those guys to take their shims out. :^)
BTW, I am having a lousy day. 20 mm of rain where I was going to go sledding for three days this week instead of the 20 cm of snow they were forcasting.
Only 200 mile this year instead of the normal 2,500 or so.

All the best,

Dave

 

[n2oiroc]

Simmons turn hard also in the right conditions. They will also dart if following another set of simmons or ski doo precision. I think the problem is too much weight on the ski's with the mono. Have not figured out how to cut down ski pressure when not excellerating.

thats the problem im having too. no center shock to add preload and the limiters are all the way out, not much else to do!

 

[BOUNTYHUNTER]

Bountyhunter,

Sorry, I was totally unclear above.
I do not disagree with your post on set up at all. It is excellent advice.
I have done the same thing with four of the eight Yamahas I have owned.
It has made them much better driving sleds.
The only thing I disagree with is the part of your second post where you say that shimming will reduce the steering effort. By that I mean the amount of effort to turn the ski's while moving forward.
That being said, I would much rather have a little more steering effort than a sled that darts, by a long shot.
Perhaps I have overshimmed in the past. I notice Scott is recommending
thinner shims now than he used to.
As you say, we are all entitled to our opinion and I was expressing mine, however it was done poorly. I apologize.
Hope I got back to you before you got those guys to take their shims out. :^)
BTW, I am having a lousy day. 20 mm of rain where I was going to go sledding for three days this week instead of the 20 cm of snow they were forcasting.
Only 200 mile this year instead of the normal 2,500 or so.

All the best,

Dave

THANKYOU; You are a breath of fresh air, as of Late it seems that everybody was takin pot shots at me. I've had to put up with way to much B.S. Last Week & This Week, so I might of been a little Defensive to you as well. I as well am sorry for that.


Everyone that comes to see me knows, that I do a lot of testing and am constantly tuning and trying different set ups. I WOULD NEVER post anything that I hadn't tryed, when it works well I share it with those here on TY. By no means is my the Only Way or Best WAY, but just An Other Way for those too see either how to do it or why.


I was only being a Smart #*$&@ when I said I was going to change those back

We are cool and thankyou............Have A Great Day



BTW.............Shiming does help lighten up the front end as you change the profile of the ski, it lifts the front..........You ride further back on the pivot. If you over shim you will find the front end super light and very easy to steer...........BUT, you will quickly find out that your new set up DOESN'T TURN. I put one in the willows that way. But the only way to find out how far you can go with shims is by trying..........trial & error I'm afraid. I took pics of before and after shimming, the front of the carbides were somewhat pointing down and the rear was up. After shimming the front came up and the rear went down, thus removing both the angle of the ski and the way weight was being put on it. Now maybe this isn't the correct way to explain it but it sure does work well, you sure do see onething though as you just get on the gas you can feel the skis come up and it just seems to glide over the snow. As before it felt like you were plowing, if you have riden a lot of sleds you will know what I'm saying, as it is a feel thing.

See in the pic how much the front of the ski angle has changed, as before the little bit of Carbide at the front was touching the ground.

 

[MR.HAPPY]

Bounty, How much of a shim did you add?

I've got the Razors & having issues too on hard pack!

BR

 

[BOUNTYHUNTER]

Bounty, How much of a shim did you add?

I've got the Razors & having issues too on hard pack!

BR

I used a piece of 1/8 Teflon sheeting [gasketing material]


I believe 3/16 would have been PERFECT, I used rubber before but found it to have a rebound effect........at least that's what it felt like. Also I tryed something different, by tieing it into the stud post it is locked in place... ZERO MOVEMENT, Can't get squished out. So far it has worked very well and has not cracked or broken and is standing up well.